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  #1  
Old 06-13-2011, 03:51 PM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default Time Value for Chord Symbols

I've had a dialog with Mark and Sherry on this topic, and it was to be a future enhancement in Composer. I need to find a way to do it in the current release.

In writing for dance band/combo, rhythm parts are frequently chord symbols and nothing else. Back in the '60s, when I was doing this work by hand, you would write something like this:

F Dm7 Gm7 C7
/ / / / / / / /

for two measures of 4/4 time, where the slashes indicated one beat. In a more syncopated rhythm, the slashes would get stems, which I can't show here.

Is there any way that I can simulate this pattern in the current Composer?

Ralph

P.S. I can't get the spacing above that I wanted, i.e., 2 beats for F, 2 beats for Dm7, etc.

Last edited by rrayner; 06-13-2011 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Spacing
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  #2  
Old 06-13-2011, 05:34 PM
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Sherry C Sherry C is offline
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Default Re: Time Value for Chord Symbols

Hi Ralph,

Would it be suitable to write the staff as a percussion staff, using one of the "other" notehead types? I've seen that used occasionally, though not as often as the slash-rhythm that you're referring to. The notes would need to have a velocity of 0.

I don't know if your rhythm instrument will also have other "real" notes or not. If it does, then my suggestion above won't work. If it doesn't have any "real" notes, then it may be an option, especially as you can then have the stems you need to indicate timing.

If the instrument does have "real" notes in it, you could do the part as a two-staff part, one with the "real" notes, and one with the "rhythm only" percussion notes.

Sorry there isn't a really good work around at this point that I can come up with. Maybe someone else has a better idea?

ttfn,
Sherry
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  #3  
Old 06-20-2011, 08:11 PM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default Re: Time Value for Chord Symbols

Hi Sherry -- I'm not making much progress on this point. I've attached two files: 1) Song1 - I've hidden the rests; included slashes as Free Text, spaced and increased their size, which looks okay at normal size. But if I zoom in or out, there is no relative expansion/contraction of the text, and 2) Song4 - I've created a drum staff, but I cannot get control of the noteheads. When I create a New File, I clicked the Staff icon at the beginning of the part; set it to be a 5-line Drum Instrument with a diamond notehead. I get nothing but x. If I do a Shift H, I get a (horizontal) display of the available noteheads, but when I select any of them, I don't get a change of the selected note(s). I'm particularly interested in seeing what the half notes and whole notes look like, but I can't see them. Am I not holding my mouth right?

Ralph

Looking at this description after the fact, I realized that I'm working with variable noteheads on a 5-line staff. i.e., triangle, x, etc., and that I was trying to change a notehead, and it was locked to the pitch I had selected. So, bottom line, I guess I still don't know how to implement your suggestion.
Attached Files
File Type: not Song1.not (3.1 KB, 1 views)
File Type: not Song4.not (2.8 KB, 1 views)

Last edited by rrayner; 06-20-2011 at 08:53 PM.
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  #4  
Old 06-21-2011, 02:08 PM
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Sherry C Sherry C is offline
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Default Re: Time Value for Chord Symbols

Hi Ralph,

Sorry for the confusion here. The five-line drum staff is "pseudo-pitch", and does have "pseudo sharps/flats" as part of the drum instruments' delineation. In other words, the E is one drum instrument, the Eb (or D#, however you want to call it) is another. So on the five line staff, the notehead shape is different depending on whether it's an "accidental" or "natural." The bottom line is, that you can't change the notehead shapes for the five line staff (and it's written up as an improvement to give better feedback about that.)

What I had intended to suggest is that you just use the standard "x" notehead shape, pick a pitch where it shows up as "x" and use that as your rhythm indicator. For example, on a five-line drum staff with a treble clef, the A (next to bottom space) is a "x", and is nice and visible. Perhaps that could be used for your rhythm notation?

ttfn,
Sherry
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  #5  
Old 06-21-2011, 02:57 PM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default Re: Time Value for Chord Symbols

Thanks, Sherry. Didn't have my thinking cap on very tightly on this one.

One additional problem with using a drum staff, and this is a problem with drums also, is that there is no differentiation in the note heads for "white" notes. A whole note is okay, because there is no stem, but a half note is a problem. A 4/4 measure with quarter/half/quarter shows as three x's with stems. The only differentiation on the half note is that there is a larger space between the half note (beats 2 & 3) and the final quarter note.

Back in the "old days", when we used pen and paper, the quarter notes in this example would be an x, and the half note would be a diamond with a stem and a whole note would be a stemless diamond.

Ah, there are always exceptions, aren't there? Bottom line, I'll work it out. Thanks.

Ralph
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  #6  
Old 06-22-2011, 01:42 PM
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Default Re: Time Value for Chord Symbols

Howdy Ralph,

Perhaps this is where you could use the "sharp" convention for the pseudo-pitches to your advantage.

Using the example of placing the rhythm indicating drum notes on "A", the "naturals" would be the "x" notehead, and sharps would be the "triangle" notehead. It's not a diamond, but at least it's different than the "x." Might that work for a workaround? I just tested it, and it works mechanically, I'm mostly asking if it works for real musicians

ttfn,
Sherry
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  #7  
Old 06-22-2011, 02:07 PM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default Re: Time Value for Chord Symbols

I'll consider this, Sherry. I'm using the spaces for E3 for Ride Cymbal and A3 for Bass Drum, in what is more or less the standard for written drum parts. If I raise the pitches, they become a triangle, but on the line above. Probably, this will be better than leaving it as it is (x-one beat; x-two beats; x-one beat), which is a visual conundrum. Hmm, I suppose I could use four quarter notes in this example, and tie beats two and three together. Thanks for the suggestion.

Ralph
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  #8  
Old 06-24-2011, 08:51 PM
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Sherry C Sherry C is offline
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Default Re: Time Value for Chord Symbols

Hi Ralph,

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrayner View Post
If I raise the pitches, they become a triangle, but on the line above.
Try using the "Enharmonic spelling" feature to get the triangles back on the correct lines (click-select the note, hold the "E" key, and press the Up or Down arrow key).

ttfn,
Sherry
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  #9  
Old 06-24-2011, 09:18 PM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default Re: Time Value for Chord Symbols

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherry C View Post
Hi Ralph,



Try using the "Enharmonic spelling" feature to get the triangles back on the correct lines (click-select the note, hold the "E" key, and press the Up or Down arrow key).

ttfn,
Sherry
That was interesting. I got a solid triangle in the E4 space when I went down. Thanks again, Sherry.

Ralph
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  #10  
Old 02-20-2016, 05:00 PM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default Re: Time Value for Chord Symbols

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherry C View Post
Hi Ralph,
Would it be suitable to write the staff as a percussion staff, using one of the "other" notehead types? I've seen that used occasionally, though not as often as the slash-rhythm that you're referring to. The notes would need to have a velocity of 0.
Sherry
Hi Sherry and All,

I have been wrestling with this topic for a long time. Finally, something Sherry mentioned popped into my head, referring to "other" noteheads in a percussion staff. In the attached 8-measure sample, I am still using the piano staff instead of a percussion staff, but I have put quarter notes (note velocity = 1) where I want the slashes, and then shown four different noteheads (2 measures apiece) that I might use to instead of text slashes. I also tried the x notehead, but that really made the piano part look like a drum part, so I tried the other four.

For those of you who, in a performance situation, have ever read handwritten parts for piano, bass or guitar that had chord symbols with slashes under them to indicate how many beats a particular chord gets, would you please weigh in with your opinion on which substitute notehead you would think best (or least distracting) to replace slashes in this situation?

Note: One MAJOR benefit to using this approach is that measures containing this kind of notation do not get compressed when compressing measures of rest (qcmr command). Measures with text slashes and hidden rests look AWFUL when compressed.

Any ideas would be welcome. Thanks!

Ralph Rayner
Attached Files
File Type: not Chords Only2.not (11.1 KB, 4 views)
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  #11  
Old 02-23-2016, 04:24 AM
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Sherry C Sherry C is offline
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Default Re: Time Value for Chord Symbols

Hi Ralph,

For myself as a bass and guitar player who has to improv over chords and have used the "timed slashes", I think I would find the triangle heads the easiest to go with. There is no mistaking them for a "regular" open head note (half-note), and they don't have the "I wonder if that's supposed to be hammer-on or other percussive technique?" feel to them like the + or the x has in my mind.

YMMV

ttfn,
Sherry
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2016, 12:53 PM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default Re: Time Value for Chord Symbols

Thanks, Sherry. I see your point. I had been leaning toward the box notehead, but that looks like a square half-note and there are places within piano, bass and guitar parts that I write that will have "play as written" sections, so it will probably be a good idea to avoid the box notehead. Thanks for weighing in.

Ralph
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