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  #1  
Old 06-19-2005, 03:39 AM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Rock 'n' Roll

Hi Sherry. I'm glad you have some good sax fonts. Mine is terrible. I slipped in a simple sax solo around the melody that may have been played by a kid back then ( so you wouldn't have to wait through 11 silent measures) It should be an octave higher, but my tenor sax in Microsoft Wavetable sounds like a soprano so I had to drop it down. You may have already written something better there, so you don't have to use mine. I just did it to fill in the empty space. I'm anxious to hear what you have done so far. Thanks again! Fred
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  #2  
Old 06-19-2005, 03:44 AM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Sorry Sherry, I neglected to u

Sorry Sherry, I neglected to upload the solo. Fred<center><table border=1><tr><td>Solo for Saxophone Rock
Saxophone Rock.not (45.0 k)</td></tr></table></center>
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  #3  
Old 06-21-2005, 06:33 AM
Sherry Crann (sherry)
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Default Howdy Fred, Hoo-eee - this

Howdy Fred,

Hoo-eee - this is fun

I sat down with just the melody print out, and my guitar (acoustic Taylor 812) tonight and came up with a chord progression. This song "felt" right for me in E, so that's what I'm working with it in at present. Of course since it's your piece, you can put it in whatever key you want it The progression goes E E7 A A7 B7 B7 (yes, two measures) E Eb3(little "twang" on the E)E. Pretty simple, straightforward blues/rock progression. I figured since you lost your little mama, it had to be some kind of blues, right? ;)

So, after I figured out what the chords might be (this is merely my interpretation, so get out the salt shaker ;) ), I tried playing around with Band in a Box, as I had a couple of stylistic ideas that I wanted to try out quickly. The one that pretty much fit the "feel" that I'm hearing in my head is called the Dr Jon Shuffle Rock, and I'm attaching a file below.

What I've done to it is to add an intro (which is just the whole chord progression only once through), then the first verse, chorus, then I made room for a 16 bar solo - it fit the progression a bit better, then the last verse, and I added in the chorus again. I banged out the rhythms for the lyrics, but haven't adjusted the pitches yet (and I don't think what I was singing in my head exactly matched what you had written out, but we can see how that all fits together).

I also added a track (currently blank ) for the sax solo. I thought perhaps with the "band" there, it might provide a bit of inspiration for filling up those 16 bars. You may want to chop the piano out at that point, as I think it (and maybe the guitar, too) might be too much over a sax solo as they are now.

So, does this fit the "3 chords and a cloud of dust" feel? Of course since you started this, you can mess around with it to your heart's content Or, if I'm just way off, you can of course toss it

BTW, I'm using the beta version of Pro, so I'm going to put both a .not file (which you'd have to use Pro or the Player for) and a mid file, if you're using Composer and want to work on it.

<center><table border=1><tr><td>Sax Rock Sherry 1
Saxophone rock Sherry.not (281.6 k)</td></tr></table></center>

<center><table border=1><tr><td>Sax Rock Sherry 1
Saxophone rock Sherry.mid (31.6 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Off to beddy bye for me
Sherry

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  #4  
Old 06-21-2005, 05:31 PM
Sherry Crann (sherry)
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Default Howdy Fred, I'm emailin

Howdy Fred,

I'm emailing you an mp3 of the above arrangement along with me singing vocal just for demonstration purposes This is to let you hear the vocals as done "live" so my poor keyboard skills aren't in the way so much.

When you mess around with recording anything into it (such as that screaming sax solo ;) ) you'll want to be sure you have a device that doesn't have any latency to it, so that you'll hear what you're actually entering. And, as I mentioned before, the piano is pretty heavy in this rendition, so you may want to either tone it down or cut it out all together. Or you can play off of some of it for the sax solo. I only play whistle, so I'm not at all positive of the capabilities and nuances of good sax playing

Anyway, mess around with it and let me know what you think. Also, the ending could use a good bit of work - the one that's on there now is pretty cheesy. And some variation to mix it up a bit more during the verses would be good too.

Another sort of rendition of it could be ala "Jail House Rock", where the chords are half-step down on the "4" preceding the "1" where they go to their "proper" places. I was playing around with that on my guitar, and it sounds like fun, too

So many arrangements, so little time .... ;)

I'll also try to get those soundfont demos done sometime soon. I took a quick listen to them using Vienna Sound Studio, and I couldn't find a good "growl" on any of them. They do vary somewhat in timbre and such. If you want, I can send you the zip/sfarc files of the fonts, and you can download Vienna, and mess around with it yourself since you would know much better than I what you're listening for in a sax sound. Just let me know if you do.

ttfn,
Sherry

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  #5  
Old 06-21-2005, 09:45 PM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default OH Man!!!!!!!, That's incr

OH Man!!!!!!!, That's incredible!!. Believe it or not, it is just about exactly like I imagined it how would come out with you doing it. I was a little embarrassed when I sent the song up, but what you have done with it makes me actually like it. One little note however, I did not lose my little mama. I was not the person singing the song, I was the sax player who stole the little mama ( the car, however was a 1955 Olds Starfire convertible ) but Cadillac fit better. Anyway, the Olds wasn't too many steps down from the Caddy. You must remember that in the 1950's and 60's sax men did not lose little mamas ( there was a little competition from drummers, but we were the true champions)ha, ha!! The chord progression is perfect, and fits like a glove.
Growling saxophones will probably be impossible to find. That style was created by Reds Prysock (Tenor)and Earl Bostic (Alto ) but it held for many years. My wife was in total awe of what you did with so little to work with. She is the "little mama" and we are still together. We were married very young. She became my "steady" and I was 19 and she was 17 when we were married. We had our 47th anniversary in April. So there is actually a little truth to the song. I don't know if my soundcard will accept soundfonts. It is a Realtek AC97 Audio card and the device is Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. I may need some instruction on how to get it to work. Thanks for what you have done. It's a remarkable job. I'll play around with the sax solo because the words dictate it, but I hate to drown out such a good piano part. Take care, and get some sleep! Fred
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  #6  
Old 06-21-2005, 10:44 PM
Sherry Crann (sherry)
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Default Howdy Fred, Ok, so you'

Howdy Fred,

Ok, so you're egging me on

That's wonderful about your "little mama" Congrats, and may it only get better with age ;)

As for the sax soundfonts, I'm going to post an mp3 of the following file at my soundclick page (www.soundclick.com/beanfield_castle) This may be instructive for others who are thinking of using soundfonts.

What I did was to copy out the sax solo that Fred had made, but I didn't do any "massaging" to make it fit any of the fonts. I made five different tracks (just to make it easier to know which one is playing when) and put a different soundfont for each track. Then I played this file through and recorded it. So, if you turn the volume on Composer all the way down, and then "play" the file at the same time you're playing the mp3, it will look and sound like you're playing the soundfonts!

The only thing I did to the recording was to even out the volume between the different fonts, as there were a couple that were very quiet compared to the others. Other than that, the sound is just the difference between the soundfonts themselves.

<center><table border=1><tr><td>Sax Rock soundfont demo
Saxophone soundfont samples.mid (3.3 k)</td></tr></table></center>
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  #7  
Old 06-22-2005, 12:33 AM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Hi Sherry, I have a problem I

Hi Sherry, I have a problem I do not understand how to solve. The first time I played the midi file, I played it on the forum- it opened with Windows Media Player and the vocal was there. I downloaded the file and played it through Windows Media and the vocal was just piano playing one note ( to the beat but no vocal) I thought something went wrong in the download and when I came back to the forum I played it again also through Windows Media Player but the vocal was gone ( Just the one note piano Played), so now I can't play the vocal in any medium. I may try it with Real Player and see what happens. Also, I can't open the .not file in Composer although the file exists. I downloaded Composer Pro to see if previous config problems could be solved there, but the 30 day trial ran out. I tried copying the file into MidiNotate\ Songs, but it still won't open in Composer. Also the file shows a track for tenor saxophone when checking the track setup, but there is no blank track for it in the notation. It is listed in the setup as track 6. I'm sure I can add a track, and work with it that way. I may drop it down to Eb since I don't do well in E, but then I would put it back in E for you.
By the way, the second sax font in the samples sounds the best of the 5 samples. The first may be OK also but the track would need to be raised an octave because the sound is more like baritone. Any ideas on why I lost the vocal? I had it the first time, then it flew the coop. Thanks again, Fred
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  #8  
Old 06-22-2005, 01:40 AM
Sherry Crann (sherry)
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Default Howdy Fred, I'm not sur

Howdy Fred,

I'm not sure what the problem with the midi file may be. Perhaps it's related to David's observed track problems with saving as midi? The tracks in the midi file above "Saxophone Rock Sherry.mid" are indeed in a different order than the same file that is on my hard drive (which is the one I uploaded to the forum). That's weird...

Anyhow, Fred, to address your points above:

1. For the "can't open the .not file in Composer", I'm using the Pro beta version, and so if you want to see it in the .not version, you'll need to download the free Player. The midi file has everything in it - see next points

2. In Composer (or other MidiNotate products) there is now the feature that if a track has no notes in it, it is automatically hidden when you open up the midi file. Just go to the Track/Track Setup command and un-hide it.

3. The vocal line (it's labeled "lyric" in the midi and .not files) is indeed only one note pitch-wise I am in the middle of my "hack and hone" approach, where I first just beat out the rhythm on one note, and then I go back and fix the pitches. Only I haven't fixed the pitches yet for this. It was actually faster for me to just record the mp3 with live vocals so you could hear it before I actually took the time to fix the pitches in the .not file.

4. If you're thinking of the actual recorded vocal, that is an mp3 file that I sent you. I didn't post that here, and I didn't post it on my SoundClick site because it's not my song, and I didn't have your permission to post it there But if you want, I can, and it's easily accessible.

By the way, I've had that tune running through my head all day now

ttfn,
Sherry

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  #9  
Old 06-22-2005, 01:44 AM
Sherry Crann (sherry)
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Default Howdy Fred, I should also m

Howdy Fred,

I should also mention that a lot of the credit for the arrangement at this point goes to Band in a Box. I just figured out the chord progression and proceeded to weed out various styles til I found one that was close to what I was hearing in my head. There are some things that I would do a bit differently if we wanted to take this little project to a "polished" status, but it stands pretty well as it is.

I also have a Hammond B3 soundfont that sounds hot on the organ track - much better than the typical soundcard organ.

Let me know if you still can't get the file to open right. Maybe I need to email something to you directly.

ttfn,
Sherry

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  #10  
Old 06-22-2005, 03:20 AM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Hi Sherry, You straightened m

Hi Sherry,
You straightened me out again , M'lady! I had forgotten I opened the MP3 file from the e-mail attachment and it was named Mixdown1. Windows Media Player only did what I told it to do. The vocal is back. Also, I didn't know empty tracks were hidden. I added a track, which I will delete, and un-hide your's. Someday I am going to figure out how to make those soundfonts work, too. Thanks again. Fred
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  #11  
Old 06-22-2005, 03:35 AM
Sherry Crann (sherry)
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Default Howdy Fred, I'm glad yo

Howdy Fred,

I'm glad you got it figured out It can get confusing when you have so many filetypes flying around! I've been working on a project of some "sing along" songs for my aunts and uncles, and going back and forth with one of my aunts (it's a secret to the rest of them for now) about some of the songs and how they should be played, and so forth, and I finally had to set up an Excel spread sheet with all my annotations and such to keep straight what I'd done and what I needed to do where to what files!

As for soundfonts, not all soundcards are able to use them. However, if you find that you'd like to work with them, you can use Composer to set up your music file, and then use a free program called SynthFont (www.synthfont.com) to play the file using soundfonts. SynthFont is only a player, but it does have the ability to render files to a format that you can put on an audio CD, as well as the ability to add real acoustic effects (such as reverb, chorus, EQ, etc) to each track or a sub bus (selection) of tracks. And the cool thing is, that a lot of the effects are to be had for free

I've written a blurb about soundfont usage, including SynthFont, in the section of the forum about "third party software" if you want to take a look. You've already heard a bit of the difference that a soundfont can make with the sax. If you want to hear some more, you can listen to the different versions of "Communion Aire" on my SoundClick site. I also did "Aaron's Meditation" solely with soundfonts. "Beanfield Winter" has a really cool soundfont "pad", but the really nice oboe is Garritan Personal Orchestra.

A soundfont is sort of like having different "makes" or "brands" of the same instrument available (as well as pads and combos that some folks have made). Different ones may sound better for different applications, so it's nice to have the choice. Another nice thing is that there are a lot of good ones that are free

ttfn,
Sherry
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  #12  
Old 06-22-2005, 03:47 AM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Hi again, Sherry! Of course yo

Hi again, Sherry! Of course you have my permission to post the song on your Sound Click site. I just registered with Sound Click also. Maybe one of these days I'll do something with a site there when I have something to put together. Oh, and thanks for the reminder about SynthFont. I have so much going on I forgot to download it before. Fred
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  #13  
Old 06-22-2005, 04:01 AM
Sherry Crann (sherry)
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Default p.s. Fred, Just to give you

p.s. Fred,

Just to give you a grin for the evening, my youngest son Joshua has been going around this evening singing "Crazy rockin' saxophone! Crazy rockin' saxophone! Crazy rockin' saxophone! RRRRrrrrrock that saxophone!" Cracks me up

(He was in the room when I recorded the vocal earlier. On the soundclick page, he's the kid with the Mickey Mouse nightgown and sunglasses next to the Dadzilla song)

ttfn,
Sherry

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  #14  
Old 06-22-2005, 04:13 AM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default That's cute! Tell Josh to

That's cute! Tell Josh to keep practicing and we'll put him on the CD. I saw him on the Web Site. I listened to Communion Aire GP. I'll have to listen to the other versions. All your stuff is really good! Fred
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  #15  
Old 06-24-2005, 06:43 PM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Hi Sherry, I inserted a sax

Hi Sherry,

I inserted a sax solo and a few fills in the chorus after the solo near the end. I tried to keep it simple to fit the genre ( it's typical Jerry Lee Lewis ). It was a pile of fun, but I'm pretty near whacky after all the editing. It "ain't easy" trying to play a sax solo on the keyboard. I wrote some things in a separate file and played with them until the meter fit pretty closely, although there are probably a few note attacks that may be a bit off. Feel free to make any changes or toss it if need be, and let me know if you want me to make any changes. It's not one of my "signature" solos, so you can do whatever you think works. I was back and forth on exactly where to fit the fills because I did not want to over-ride the piano fills that are perfect. I also added a "Tenor Sax" track. It took me a while to figure out how to unhide your sax track. I left your sax track in in case you had a reason for it, so it is hidden again but it is still there. Thanks for all the work you put into this. It's a real kick working with you. BTW, have your heard Melissa Forbes' songs on Sound Click? She's in the "jazz" section. What a voice! and what great style!!... over and out. Fred
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  #16  
Old 06-24-2005, 06:51 PM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Oops! I did it again, Sherry.

Oops! I did it again, Sherry. Here's the song. Fred
<center><table border=1><tr><td>Saxophone Rock_Sherry_midi-take2
Saxophone_rock_Sherry-miditake2-27056.not (303.4 k)</td></tr></table></center>
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  #17  
Old 06-24-2005, 07:22 PM
Sherry Crann (sherry)
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Default Howdy Fred, That's grea

Howdy Fred,

That's great! I know how you feel about trying to enter a part for something that's not a keyboard using a keyboard But you did a great job! You got some really nice articulations in, and that's the key to a really convincing performance. I know some folks are coordinated enough to do that type of thing on the fly, but I'm really glad (for me) that Mark has made it so you can put those types of things (mod wheel adjustments, pitch bends, etc) in after you get the notes in

Since you really like the piano parts, maybe we can just quiet them down a bit during the sax parts. That's easy enough to do. And thanks for letting me work on this with you - it's a lot of fun, and my kids dance when I'm playing it out loud

I haven't listened to Melissa Forbes, but given your recommendation, I'll have to check her out!

I've also been thinking about the ending - maybe repeating the chorus again, ending temporarily at the "-phone" part of "rock that saxophone", then letting the sax play a short riff (something along the lines of what you have for the ending part now - sort of a wail of triumph ;) ), and have all the instruments hit that last chord for an ending. What do you think? I know it's better to hear it than read it I'll see what I can come up with by way of demonstration.

We've had some really nice weather here lately, and I've been spending a lot of time outside painting and such as that (there's always something to do to a 109 year old house ). But I'm hoping to get a good evening of music work in here soon!

ttfn,
Sherry

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  #18  
Old 06-24-2005, 10:27 PM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Thanks Sherry, I must have tr

Thanks Sherry,
I must have tried 20 solos before I remembered the old "KISS" formula. I could have saved a lot of time in the beginning and kept it simple like the song calls for, but I couldn't resist throwing a few bends in here and there. I know what you mean with the triumphant ending. We did some of those in my day. It just has to be done like it was written for the song. Do whatever you like with the chorus or the ending. We just have to keep those kids dancin'. Yeah, definitely listen to Melissa Forbes. I fell in love with her half way through the first song I listened to. She has so much soul. I would go see her if she ever got close to here. I'm gonna go get some of that sun, too. See ya! Fred
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  #19  
Old 06-27-2005, 07:10 PM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Hi Sherry, I did a little so

Hi Sherry,
I did a little something for the kids. Tell them it's a special "gift" from me to keep them dancing. It's a little cut &amp; paste, a lot of editing, some rhytms, some borrowing, some writing. Several songs were involved so everything may not fit perfectly. The guitar solo leaves a little to be desired, but I had to put one in because I always wanted to play a guitar solo. I just could never figure out which end of the guitar you blow into.
Fred


<center><table border=1><tr><td>The Robin Rocks For Mahala, Aaron, Tommy &amp; Josh
The Robin Rocks.mid (20.4 k)</td></tr></table></center>
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  #20  
Old 06-27-2005, 07:29 PM
Sherry Crann (sherry)
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Default Howdy Fred, What fun! And

Howdy Fred,

What fun! And yes, they were dancing (and telling Mom to stop singing so they could hear the music ;) ) You did a great job putting that together.

As for which end of the guitar to blow, why the end that makes the sound you're after, of course ;)

ttfn,
Sherry "doesn't know which side of a sax to strum" Crann
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  #21  
Old 06-27-2005, 08:44 PM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Sherry "doesn't know w

Sherry "doesn't know which side of a sax to strum" Crann

The side that twangs the loudest!

Glad they were dancing.
Fred
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  #22  
Old 06-28-2005, 11:59 AM
David Jacklin (dj)
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Default What's the difference betw

What's the difference between a saxophone and a chainsaw?

Vibrato.


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  #23  
Old 06-28-2005, 10:36 PM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Now, that's funny, David!

Now, that's funny, David!
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  #24  
Old 07-14-2005, 10:25 PM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Hi Sherry, I'm uploading

Hi Sherry,
I'm uploading another midi file for Saxophone Rock. I changed the solo, but you can use whatever you like best. There were a couple of wrong words in the previous file that I corrected on this one. I played with it a lot adding guitar solos and rock organ solos, but decided to just go with the sax solo because of the name. I cut and pasted so much I got confused and lost the ability to select a region. It was driving me nuts so I took out the other stuff and left it short with just the sax solo. Let me know if you have any ideas. If you put it together with the vocal, could you mail me a copy on CD of a .wav file and an mp3 file? I only have Synthfont, so I can't do the vocal and I want to put all my stuff on CD. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks again!
Fred Winterling <center><table border=1><tr><td>Saxophone Rock_latest file
Saxophone Rock_Latest_finish.mid (34.3 k)</td></tr></table></center>
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  #25  
Old 07-15-2005, 12:07 AM
Mark Walsen (markwa)
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Default Hello Fred, The sax player

Hello Fred,

The sax player for your rock band won't be able to show up for rehearsals for a while.

Sherry went into the hospital last week and ended up with an hysterectomy. She's back home but I suspect it will be days before we'll see her back in the forum.

Cheers
-- Mark
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  #26  
Old 07-15-2005, 02:20 AM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Hi Mark, Yes, I just got an

Hi Mark,

Yes, I just got an e-mail from Sherry. And I just assumed she was on vacation having the time of her life. I'm sure glad everthing turned out OK. God bless you, Sherry and hurry back....we miss you!

Fred
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  #27  
Old 08-01-2005, 04:12 AM
Sherry Crann (sherry)
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Default Howdy Fred, Well, I'm b

Howdy Fred,

Well, I'm better than I was, and not as good as I will be, but I'm slowly getting back in the swing of things

I just downloaded the latest sax solo that you did Fred, and I'll try it out in the "accompaniment" file that I did. I'm still thinking of rearranging the ending a bit, if you think that would be a Good Thing

As for recording, I don't mind doing that a bit, but I have recently found out about an audio editor that you might be interested in. It's called Audacity, and it's open source and free You can check it out at http://audacity.soundforge.net/

You can use it to record performances from Composer, and then have that play while you record audio (such as vocals) tracks too. You can then mix down the tracks to two-track stereo wav, mp3, or ogg filetypes for whatever you want to do. I haven't had the opportunity to mess around with it much, but it seems like a great program - and it's free So if you want to do your own vocals, you could probably use this to do it. Or if you want me to do the vocals, I don't mind a bit - this is a fun song Just let me know what you want to do.

Also, if you have SynthFont, were you able to find the sax fonts, or would you like me to email you the files I found? Let me know on that one, too.

ttfn,
Sherry



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  #28  
Old 08-01-2005, 05:57 PM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Hi Sherry, Sure glad to see y

Hi Sherry,
Sure glad to see you back, girl! I answered your post a couple hours ago, but for some reason it never got posted. I'm trying again.
Feel free to do anything and everything you like with the song. I've tried a bunch of sax solos but I haven't been happy with any of them. For some reason they all sound like a sax played on a keyboard. I keep forgetting you can only play one note at a time on the sax. Plus, I can't hum into the keyboard like I could with the mouthpiece to get that "growl". I did download Sythfont's alto sax font (he said it was good) but it sounds no better than what I have. The tenor, alto and soprano all sound the same. It would be great if you send me some sax files.
I do have Audacity, but I have no idea what to do with it. The only mixing I'm good at are recipes (I'm a killer in the kitchen).
I'm sure the song will sound a lot better with your vocal. I used to sing with my band, but the last time I uttered a sound was 1980. I left the rock tunes to the real vocalists and I did some standards. I did a real good job with "Volare" in Italian, though. I have access to a translation program and I am thinking of doing a few, believe it or not. I don't have a microphone. The only one I can afford is Radio Shack. I don't imagine a $15 mike would sound too good, though. I'd really like to do some Barry Manilow and Neil Diamond tunes just to goof off.
Maybe when we get it done, we can both put it on Soundclick. We'll put both names on it with your name as arranger and sequencer and vocalist. I have 3 songs on Soundclick now. (I have your site as a station on my site). I have been trying to add some rhythm and strings to the ballads, but like Mark says, there is so much rubato. I can't get it to synchronize unless I edit the teeth out of them. It gets better if I lay down the bass and drum parts first, but I don't do well with my own and it takes a ton of editing for parts that are already laid out. I did Ok adding brass to my jazz tune, but I am trying to add a trumpet solo and that is just as bad as my adding sax solos. Maybe I should look for some Ella Fitzgerald scat tunes and steal some of the riffs to make into instrumental solos.
Anyway, have fun with the song. It's as much yours as it is mine. Take care and don't try to do too much.

Fred,
http://www.soundclick.com/fredwinterling
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  #29  
Old 08-01-2005, 06:00 PM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Hi again Sherry,...P.S. to abo

Hi again Sherry,...P.S. to above.
Pick any of the sax solos or combinations you think are best for the song.
Fred
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  #30  
Old 08-01-2005, 06:01 PM
Mark Walsen (markwa)
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Default Hello Sherry, When you say

Hello Sherry,

When you say that you can use Audacity to record performances from Composer, what technique are you using to route Composer's MIDI output to audio input in Audacity? Is the route a physical audio cable from your soundcard's Audio Out to your soundcard's Audio In?

Cheers
-- Mark
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