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-   -   MIDI Device for SoundFonts (http://www.notation.com/vb-forum/showthread.php?t=2114)

Don Whitener (cdon) 09-25-2005 04:54 PM

I hate to see an unused topic
 
I hate to see an unused topic on any forum...

I have started tinkering around a bit with sf2 soundfonts using SynthFont player to play MIDI files. There are plenty of free ones around, and some of them sound very nice indeed.

To the question: Does anyone know of a soundfont player that can be set up as a standard MIDI output device? At present, SynthFont cannot be used in this fashion, and a search has not turned up anything that will.

Disregarding the number of posts, I am a fairly long-time MidiNotate user, and I am *really* enjoying using Composer. As always, nice work Mark!

Sherry Crann (sherry) 09-25-2005 07:21 PM

Howdy Don, I'm not pers
 
Howdy Don,

I'm not personally aware of any free soundfont players that can be set up as a standard MIDI device. Some are available with VST support, but not as a "standard" device. SynthFont does have a VST version, which is bundled with the download of the install program.

David Jacklin might know of others?...

ttfn,
Sherry

Mark Walsen (markwa) 09-25-2005 07:39 PM

Hello Don, Soundcards by Cr
 
Hello Don,

Soundcards by Creative Labs and Emu Systems directly support playing MIDI using sf2 soundfonts, as well as some other souncards. Have you checked to see if your soundcard directly supports this? You might just need to install a driver.

Cheers
-- Mark

Don Whitener (cdon) 09-25-2005 10:11 PM

Sherry and Mark, thank you bot
 
Sherry and Mark, thank you both... I'll keep looking around a bit. Maybe something will show up.

David Jacklin (dj) 09-26-2005 12:44 PM

Hi, Don: There are a ton of
 
Hi, Don:

There are a ton of Soundfont players for VST, many of them freeware. If you want an independent Soundfont device, there is a (rather 'round about) way to do it. Once you've done all the steps, though, it should be very simple to use.

1) Install Maple Midi by MarbleSound or similar to give you "virtual" midi devices. (www.marblesound.com) I recommend that one as it seems to me most configurable; there are others.

2) Install Hermann Seib's freeware program, VST host, (www.hermannseib.com) to host the Soundfont player. He has another freeware program called Savihost which is similar but which, by simply renaming it to the same name as your Soundfont player and dropping the Soundfont player's .dll file into the same folder, will automatically run that VSTi.

3) Install your choice of Soundfont player. A Google search for "Soundfont player" and "freeware" will bring up a couple of dozen to choose from. Try http://www.rgcaudio.com/sfz.htm as a starter.

4) Point both the host and Composer to the virtual midi port you want, which is simply a couple of clicks.

Having done all that, then simply run VST host and load the Soundfont player in it (or even more simply, run the renamed Savihost that runs your player) before running Composer.

Once all that is done, it should be only one extra click before running Composer to get your Soundfont player connected.

I hope this helps.

David






David Jacklin (dj) 09-26-2005 12:49 PM

Hi, again, Don: I just chec
 
Hi, again, Don:

I just checked to above steps with the sfz player and it works a treat.

Even better, sfz comes with its own independent executable host file, meaning you don't have to bother downloading and installing Herman Seib's hosts. However, I do recommend those programs for other VSTs -- you'll be amazed at what's available.

David

Don Whitener (cdon) 09-26-2005 03:50 PM

Ah! Thank you *very* m
 
Ah! Thank you *very* much David. I have taken a quick look at the links, and I believe that I understand how to proceed. Nice explanation! I’ll have a go at it later this week when I’ll have plenty of time. I’ll let you know when I get things working, and I do appreciate your time spent in writing up the steps and checking them out.

Don Whitener (cdon) 09-27-2005 03:04 AM

Hummm... I said that I had tak
 
Hummm... I said that I had taken a quick look at the links, but I did not look at all of them recently :-( I did look at MarbleSound a while back, but I find that their link does not appear to be working today. Bummer. Does anyone know if this might be a temporary problem? If it doesn't come up soon I will try MIDI Yoke.

David Jacklin (dj) 09-27-2005 03:12 PM

Hi, Don: Midi Yoke should w
 
Hi, Don:

Midi Yoke should work fine for you. I know Mark uses it. I chose Maple Midi because it let me choose the number of ports to install, whereas Midi Yoke automatically put in 8 ports. That may be changed by now or you may not even notice it.

David



Don Whitener (cdon) 09-27-2005 05:12 PM

Thank you David, Yes, I wil
 
Thank you David,

Yes, I will probably go with Midi Yoke. I see that LoopBe1 is also available at:

http://www.nerds.de/en/loopbe1.html

which looks ok as well.

Joerg Triesch (joerg) 06-15-2006 10:58 PM

David, thanks for the descrip
 
David,
thanks for the description. It got me very close to the finishing line, all software installed, manipulated sound font banks already - but with the final step I have problems:

what i did so far:
maple midi installed
opening sfz with savihost

but what exactly do i have to do in savihost to tell it which soundfont bank it shall use.

would it be possible to use synthfont instead as the soundfont player in savihost? synthfont has various dll's. how can i now which one to load with savihost.

and how do i Point both the host and Composer to the virtual midi port.
The virtual midi port which i have to choose is maple, right?


can anybody help?

thanks

jörg
-the greatest fan of midi notate composer in germany-

Bernard Ackerman (bernie9) 06-15-2006 11:37 PM

I too have been looking for be
 
I too have been looking for better quality sound than wavetable. I have Soundfont and the Sfz player. I downloaded Midi Yoke, unzipped it, and it said that driver(I guess)was being sent somewhere in the system, and that left me with a readme.

How do I get Composer to recognize a Midiyoke port to send to SFZ(containing Sounfont) ? I initialized Composer hoping to find a new port. That didn't get it.

I am more of a musician than geek, and this is a bit confusing to me.

David Jacklin (dj) 06-16-2006 01:34 PM

Hi, Joerg and Bernard: If i
 
Hi, Joerg and Bernard:

If installed properly, your virtual midi ports should come up in the Midinotate Device Configuration dialogue box (Setup/Midi Devices/Configuration or qdc)-- you will have to reboot your system first, though. In my case, I have Maple Midi In: Port 1 through Port 4, then Maple Midi Out: Port 1 through Port 4 -- along with about 20 other midi ports real and virtual.

When you do see those, simply use the Setup/Midi Devices/Quick Setup to choose one of the virtual ports as your default, or use the Staff/Setup or Staff Controls at the left of each staff to select your virtual device for each channel.

Using SFZ as an example, because it has a stand-alone mode, simply pull down the MIDI menu and select your chosen virtual midi device. To load a Soundfont in SFZ, right-click in the blank beside the word file and you'll get a file-load dialogue box. In SAVIHost/VSTHost, use the Device/Midi menu to select your device, then load Soundfonts through the VSTi.

Remember that you load Soundfonts into the VST instrument that you've loaded into SAVIHost: SAVIHost is not an instrument, just a program that loads and runs (hosts) a VST instrument. As I say, SFZ doesn't need SAVIHost, there's an executable that comes with it.

SFZ is multi-channel, so you don't even have to worry about selecting the right midi channel: it will play whatever you send to it.

I don't know Synthfont at all, so I can't advise you there. Sherry Crann is the resident Synthfont expert. There's also a thread around here on Using Midinotate with 3rd Party Software that should help.

David





Sherry Crann (sherry) 06-16-2006 03:39 PM

Howdy guys, SynthFont has a
 
Howdy guys,

SynthFont has a VST incarnation that you can probably use in David's configuration (described above) to use soundfonts. I haven't used it in that manner, mostly because I haven't had to - I have a SB Audigy2 sound card that I can load soundfonts in directly. Just call me lazy http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

Bernard Ackerman (bernie9) 06-16-2006 03:58 PM

Thank you David and Sherry I
 
Thank you David and Sherry
I misspoke. I have synthfont, but have not used it. I have used SGM180 inside of SFZ on my Receptor. It is a very good GM soundset.

I thought Midiyoke was installed, but it was merely unzipped. I will attempt to load SFZ with SGM180 and use Midiyoke in and out ports on respective apps.

I'll let you know how I do.

Thanks
Bernie

Bernard Ackerman (bernie9) 06-16-2006 09:21 PM

I can't get it play at all
 
I can't get it play at all. I have Midiyoke showing on the ports. I selected port one as midi ports in SFZ and Composer. On SFZ I pressed file/load programs , and selected my soundbank set of samples. No problem. Select Midiyoke as default device in Composer, it won't even start to play a midifile. It freezes. I change back to GS Wavetable, and it is okay. When I rightclicked on the blank field, and loaded the same bank of samples in SFZ, it says "not enough memory".

I don't know why the file/program loads, and the "blank load doesn't, unless that is for one sample for one track.

Any ideas ?

Joerg Triesch (joerg) 06-16-2006 11:32 PM

David, thanks a lot once agai
 
David,
thanks a lot once again. I've managed to load a soundfont into SFZ (Bernard: there seem to be an issue with its size: 1MB works, 80MB doesn't).
I also see the Maple ports in Composer. I've chosen port1 out as the default device. But no sounds. I hear sounds in SFZ hosted by SAVIHOST when I press the keys there.
Any further ideas.
Thanks for the patience with us PC dummies.

jörg

Bernard Ackerman (bernie9) 06-16-2006 11:45 PM

It is only 40MB, and works in
 
It is only 40MB, and works in Muse Receptor. I must be doing something wrong though.
Bernie

Joerg Triesch (joerg) 06-17-2006 09:32 AM

Bernie, you are right: it is
 
Bernie,
you are right: it is not just the size. finally i was able to load a 80MB soundfont into SFZ. But still no sound in Composer.

jörg

Bernard Ackerman (bernie9) 06-17-2006 11:11 AM

jorg Have a look at this: [u
 
jorg
Have a look at this:
http://www.rgcaudio.com/sfzfaq.htm

In my case, memory is a factor. It works with Muse Receptor because
1. It is a host
2. I have 2 gigs of ram

When loading at 32, it takes too much memory for my pc, which hasn't enough . I am going to try 16. Also it mentions a host in FAQ. Maybe it is not working as a stand alone.

Later
Bernie

Joerg Triesch (joerg) 06-19-2006 09:31 PM

tx bernie, yes, the sfz optio
 
tx bernie,
yes, the sfz options can cope with the memory problems. and i hear fat sound of 90 mb soundfonts in sfz when i use the keyboard embedded in savihost.

but still no sound in composer. ms wavetable synth is working fine.

has anyone got a clou how to test whether it is a problem in composer or whether i have to change some settings on my pc?

jörg

Bernie Ackerman (bernie9) 06-20-2006 12:22 PM

Jorg Did you go to control pa
 
Jorg
Did you go to control panel\sounds and audio devices\audio, and change midi playback to midiyoke 1, or whatever port you are using ?

David Jacklin (dj) 06-20-2006 04:10 PM

Hi, all: Composer has a bit
 
Hi, all:

Composer has a bit of an issue with load order: it wants the soundfont player to be up and running (I suggest getting your fonts loaded at that time) before running Composer.

The freezing that Bernard is reporting is what I've experienced when running the soundfont player after Composer is already running.

Try it in the other order.

Mark:

I've always just accepted the above behaviour as the way Composer works, but perhaps it should be considered a bug.

David

Mark Walsen (markwa) 06-20-2006 04:21 PM

Hello David, In version 2.1
 
Hello David,

In version 2.1, scheduled for late summer or September, there will be improvements in Composer's handling of sound fonts which should fix problems associated with the load order.

Cheers
-- Mark

Joerg Triesch (joerg) 06-20-2006 10:28 PM

Bernie, tx, but doesn't
 
Bernie,

tx, but doesn't help either.
and i think changing the port in Composer should be enough anyway!?
jörg

David Jacklin (dj) 06-21-2006 03:05 PM

Hi, Joerg and Bernard: Note
 
Hi, Joerg and Bernard:

Note my post about load order above. I'm pretty sure that will clear things up.

David

Joerg Triesch (joerg) 06-21-2006 10:12 PM

tx david, but i always ran th
 
tx david,
but i always ran the soundfont player and loaded the soundfonts into the player before i started composer.

i guess i have another problem.
joerg

Bernie Ackerman (bernie9) 06-22-2006 02:54 PM

My order was correct, also. Un
 
My order was correct, also. Unfortunately, I can't get to that point with my soundset, because it keeps saying "not enough memory". Does anyone knew of a small one just to test with ? I only have 352MB RAM,HD Defragged.

Sherry Crann (sherry) 06-22-2006 03:14 PM

Howdy Bernie, If you go to
 
Howdy Bernie,

If you go to the SynthFont website "Downloads" page (http://www.saunalahti.fi/kru99/Downloads.htm), he has a really small GM soundfont (it's about 1 Mb) that you could use for testing purposes. It has a text link of "The smallest General Midi ("GM") SoundFont I know about", and is a little way down the Download page.

The quality isn't the best, but the size should be quite manageable for testing purposes.

ttfn,
Sherry


Bernie Ackerman (bernie9) 06-24-2006 01:02 PM

Thanks Sherry. the size is f
 
Thanks Sherry. the size is fine, but it still won't produce any sound with SFZ and Midiyoke. The loading order was correct.

Bernie


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