Metronome volume changing

[blane245]

I am using the metronome with MIDI channel 10. My problem is that the volume of the metronome keeps changing during the playback. It appears to be a random times. I've started and stopped Notation a few times, but it doesn't seem to fix the problem. Also, it happens on some songs and not others.

[Sherry C]

Hi Blane,

I suspect that there is probably another staff (perhaps hidden) that shares the same channel number. Any other staff that shares the same channel will affect the sound if there are any MIDI events in it. Please take a look at Staff/Setup, and see if there are any other staves that share the drum channel. If so, and you don't need those staves (eg. they are hidden because they have no notes), try deleting the staves and see if that solves the problem. If it doesn't please post a sample file that shows the problem and someone here can take a look at it.

ttfn,
Sherry

[blane245]

Here is one of the pieces I am having trouble with. It had a recorder paert with nothing in it originally that I removed. Removing the empty recorder part had not effect. Let me know what you find Sonata 5 in Bb Major(III).not

[dj]

Hi, Blane:

I can't find any problem with metronome volume in what you posted, but it did contain only one staff. Was that intended?

David

[blane245]

Originally Posted by dj

Hi, Blane:

I can't find any problem with metronome volume in what you posted, but it did contain only one staff. Was that intended?

David

Yes, there was only a single staff. Since your are having no metronome problems, maybe it is a problem between Notation and my computer or OS. Possibly a sound card problem. Since I don't have a MIDI, I am using Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth as the MIDI device. Could that be the problem?

[herbert]

Hi Blane,

I have just played your song. The metronome volume is indeed inconsistent and all over the place. I do not think that it is the Microsoft wave table or the operating system.

Herbert

[dj]

Hi, guys:

Played the song again on two different ports and still don't notice any problem.

Now, I'm playing it through external ports -- the Microsoft GS thingie is not part of my system, so I can't test that.

The only volume variation I hear when played through either external port is the programmed accent on the downbeats. I don't think that's what you're talking about, though.

As I'm not hearing any problem with an external port, I have to think that it has to do with the MS GS thingie.

I loaded up Synthfont and sent the metronome to that through Midiyoke. Again, I didn't hear a problem, other than some latency.

Can't help any further than that, other than suggesting a different sound source.

David

[blane245]

Originally Posted by herbert

Hi Blane,

I have just played your song. The metronome volume is indeed inconsistent and all over the place. I do not think that it is the Microsoft wave table or the operating system.

Herbert

I am glad someone can see this problem. What are you using for playback? Your computer or a MIDI?

[Sherry C]

Hi guys,

I'm starting to suspect the GS Wavetable as well. I've played the file using Composer -> LoopBe virtual MIDI cable -> Reaper, using SynthFont VSTi as my MIDI device, and don't hear any problems. I have GS Wavetable turned off, but will test that later (I'm headed out the door for a "field trip" with my kids).

Herbert, thanks for the additional testing. What MIDI playback device are you using?

One other thing I'll do when I get back is post a screenshot of my metronome setup. I'm also wondering if it has any relation to what drum instruments are used for which downbeats.

Thanks guys!
Sherry

[blane245]

OK. So thing's get weirder. I have restarted my computer and then played this piece. There is no metronome problem! I had tried restarting notation and that didn't fix the problem. It appears that restarting my computer does. I will keep this thread open, because it will probability happen again, and maybe I can catch the culprit.

[herbert]

Listening again to the song, I hear a metronome that does not line up with the song. The sound level does not change.

Herbert

[Sherry C]

Hi guys,

Originally Posted by herbert

Listening again to the song, I hear a metronome that does not line up with the song. The sound level does not change.

Herbert

This situation can happen if you are using a different device for the metronome than for regular playback, and one device has a latency that has not been adjusted for. I typically recommend to use the same MIDI playback device for both the metronome and the staves in the file.

If you are using the same device for both, can you please let me know what device you're using?

Thanks!
Sherry

[blane245]

Don't go off on another problem. My problem is that the sound track starts soft, then gets loud about measure 3, then later gets soft again. I am not using a MIDI, but my computer sound card. The problem comes and goes on certain compositions, and never appears on others. When I say comes and goes I mean that it will go away after restarting my computer, but if I play the song a few times, it comes back.

I suspect a memory problem.

[dj]

Hi, Blane:

This is something I've not run into before with Notation Software products (and my involvement goes back before it was even called Notation Software!), so I have to think it's something specific with your computer.

Your suspicion is that it's a memory problem. Neither Composer or the MS GS synth use that much memory, so I would question whether that's likely, unless there is lots of other stuff running at the same time.

I suggest you install something like Coolsoft's VirtualMIDISynth (http://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/virtualmidisynth). It's free and you can test the problem with it. Be sure you download one of the suggested GM soundfonts to go with it. If you like it, you may even stick with it.

As with all software synths (it's actually a sample playback device, not a synthesizer), it has some latency, but apparently less than many. I'm not sure if it's ASIO4ALL compatible or not.

David

[Sherry C]

Hi guys,

David's suggestion for testing is a good one. The GS Wavetable - while convenient because it's on all Windows machines - has some "personality issues" It does some strange things, including messing up ASIO (which isn't intuitively obvious, but nonetheless true), and other quirky behavior.

Something else that can goof around with MIDI devices (and the GS Wavetable is the Windows internal MIDI device) are programs that use MIDI, such as instant messaging programs (among others) - those little beeps/bells/buzzers are typically MIDI-generated sounds, and so they call on the MIDI driver.

If anything like that is going on on your machine, they can interfere with the proper playback of files. Most newer machines and setups handle things pretty well, but since there are so many different configuration scenarios, I mention this as something to look out for. If someone is having sporadic problems, I typically recommend shutting off anything else that may call on audio or MIDI resources while you're working on files.

ttfn,
Sherry

[blane245]

Sherry and dj,
Thanx a lot for the suggestion. I am no where near an expert in dealing with MIDI or sampling (I was many years ago, circa 1970, but things have changed).
I did download CoolSoft's app and selected the Timbre of Heaven as the sound font. I can't quite figure out how to map the staff successfully. I did select CoolTrack as the metronome sound tract, but my one staff in the file does not show that device as an option. The metronome is not playing at all. I think I configured Cooltrack output right, but who knows.

Can you guys help? I have attached the current version of the file after I made the metronome track change.

I seem to be having attachment problems so it may have not been attached.

BTW, when I use Notation, there is very little else running. I use it for practice on my instrument of choice, and am not doing much else.

[dj]

Hi, Blane:

There's a detailed tutorial on getting the Coolsoft synth up and running, specifically with the Timbres of Heaven Soundfont here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...messages/34524

I don't have it installed on my system, so I probably can't give you any useful information.

I hope that tutorial can help.

David

[herbert]

Here is the explanation!

The metronome track is monophonic (not polyphonic). The percussive sound of each metronome note has a specific decay to produce a natural sound. If the bpm setting is to high, the metronome notes cut each other off, giving the impression of irregularity and partial loss of volume.

Blane’s file comes at a tempo of 100 bpm. If the tempo is reduced to say 60 bpm, the metronome sounds ok. Permitting the metronome track to operate polyphonically, would be the proper solution.

Herbert

[blane245]

Originally Posted by herbert

Blane’s file comes at a tempo of 100 bpm. If the tempo is reduced to say 60 bpm, the metronome sounds ok. Permitting the metronome track to operate polyphonically, would be the proper solution.

Herbert

I got CoolSoft working and noticed the delay between the two synthesizers, so I moved the voices to CoolSoft and everything appears fine. I may play around with different sound fonts to fine what I like.

I see that reducing the speed to 60bpm fixes the problem with the MS Synth. How do I change the metronome track from monophonic to polyphonic? I see no such option in Notation.

[Sherry C]

Hi Blane and Herbert,

Originally Posted by blane245

I see that reducing the speed to 60bpm fixes the problem with the MS Synth. How do I change the metronome track from monophonic to polyphonic? I see no such option in Notation.

I'm pretty sure that's a device issue (ie one of the GS Wavetable's "personality quirks") rather than a global MIDI issue (or setting capability in ours or other software). As mentioned, I played the file on my system using SynthFont VSTi, and didn't have any problem. Neither did David J using a different synth.

ttfn,
Sherry

[blane245]

I am all happy now. To summarize, the problem was with playing the metronome track faster than Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth could keep up with. Switching to Coolsoft's VirtualMIDISynth resolved the problem. I have been moving all of my track to that device as I open my various Notation files. Thanx for the help!

[Sherry C]

Hi Blane,

Glad you were able to get it all sorted!

David J is a master at things MIDI related (he runs Barn Door Productions "Full Circle Theatre" which does a lot of musicals, and he is the arranger/composer/sound source) and always has excellent advice. Herbert does extensive composing/arranging for sound track production, and is obviously another master Tag team, they're unbeatable

I am really thankful for all you guys who help make our musicians' community so helpful!

ttfn,
Sherry

[dj]

Aw, shucks! (Scuffing toe in dirt.)