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  #1  
Old 08-20-2013, 04:58 AM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default Swing Feel

I love music. My passion is Big Band Jazz/Swing. One of the problems I have with all of the notation programs I have tried is that it is difficult to notate a phrase that truly swings. Straight eighth notes are too pure; dotted eighths/sixteenth notes are too herky-jerky (a lot of early swing music was written this way); and quarter/eighth note triplets, although closer to swing while being a little more cluttered for reading, still don't quite match up to the way a human plays swing. I truly don't know if that will ever be achieved in computer-generated music. Arrangers/bands that want to play a piece in swing style simply notate the subject phrases in straight eighth notes, and tell the musicians, "Swing it!".

It should be noted that "swing feel" is not restricted to jazz music. If you listen closely to any number of popular songs, you can hear the swing feel I am talking about -- they are not singing/playing straight eighth notes, and there is a lot of syncopation for offbeat notes -- a whole lot of swingin' goin' on.

Wanting my music to sound a little more human, I have tried tweaking durations and attack points in an attempt to get closer to the sound I want. The attached sample is a jazz/swing phrase notated in five different ways: 1) straight eighth notes; 2) dotted eighth/sixteenth notes; 3) quarter/eighth note triplets; and 4) my attempt at capturing a feel closer to real swing. Segment 5 is identical to Segment 4, but I have "smoothed out" each eighth note of the pairs by increasing their duration +7 -- see Steps 2 and 3 below. I am afraid this manipulation still falls short, but I like the sound of it better than the alternatives. It is additional work, however.

A little basic instruction first -- Notation Software uses a value of 480 ticks (units of time) per quarter note. You can see these units by using the Notation Software Piano Roll feature from the Task Ribbon. Straight eighth note pairs are each 233 ticks, with 7 ticks of no sound (release) after each note for separation (233+7+233+7=480 ticks). Dotted eighth/sixteenth pairs have the following pattern: 345+15+113+7=480 ticks. The truest, easiest to notate swing feel is the quarter/eighth note triplet pairs which have the following pattern: 309+11+153+7=480.

Note: If you are making the following types of changes in Piano Roll, make sure you are in "ep" mode, which modifies only the "as performed" attacks and durations. You can either type "ep" or click the third icon from the left in Piano Roll.

Take a look at the attached .not file to see the five examples of the different treatments of a sample phrase. What I have done in the fourth iteration of the phrase (Swing Feel) is the following:

1) one at a time, select all of the offbeat eighth notes and type a+60 and press Enter -- this will move the attack for these notes 60 ticks to the right and decrease the duration of these notes by 60 ticks from 233 ticks to 173 ticks -- also, if you want to smooth out the articulation of the phrase, type d+7 at this point to lengthen the second note of the pair to 180 ticks -- see Segment 5

2) one at a time, select all of the eighth notes that are on the beat and type d+60 and press Enter -- this will increase the duration of these eighth notes from 233 ticks to 293 ticks -- also, if you are smoothing out the articulation of the phrase, as in Step 1 above, type d+7 at this point to lengthen the first note of the pair to 300 ticks -- see Segment 5

3) one at a time, select all of the offbeat eighth notes that are either at the end of a phrase or a standalone note with nothing following it (measures 19 & 20 -- a swing musician would "fatten" these notes to give them more prominence) -- type d+107 and press Enter -- this will lengthen each of these notes to 280 ticks (173+107=280 ticks -- a nice "fat" sound)

Note: If you are making the changes to multiple parts, you can select multiple notes in several parts at the same time, as long as each of the selected notes is one you want to change.

These adjustments are arbitrary on my part. At the moment, what I hear is more to my liking than the quarter/eighth note triplet feel, which I feel sounds too mechanical. Of course, my adjustments are also mechanical -- each eighth note pair is adjusted the same way. But, it is a matter of personal choice. As time goes by, I may change my mind and think that I should adjust by 55 ticks or 65 ticks, or some other variation. This choice is, of course, subjective. If I truly wanted to spend the time, varying each eighth note pair a little differently would make it sound much more human, but this will do for me at this time.

To see this adjustment implemented, see my recent Puttin’ on the Ritz.

It uses the a+60 and d+60 I mentioned above. I hope this little discourse is of benefit to someone. I know I'm a lot happier with the sound I get using this technique.

Ralph R. Rayner
Attached Files
File Type: not Swing Sample.not (21.9 KB, 19 views)

Last edited by rrayner; 09-01-2017 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Added additional instructions
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  #2  
Old 01-05-2014, 03:48 PM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default Swing Feel

For those of you who are interested in this thread, I have added another example of the usage of the variations outlined in my first post on Swing Feel. See/hear the full version at: Yesterdays

My septet version of “Yesterdays” contains more of the attack/duration manipulation detailed in my initial post. I have added a sample with this post to illustrate the differences in the traditional ways of notating swing music, with my special swing manipulation last for you to hear the difference between the three examples. I have only included the horns and the bass for the examples. The first sample (A) is the “old” standard way of notating swing, i.e., the dotted eighth/sixteenth note pattern. The second example (B) is (to my ear) the closest you can get to notating swing feel, i.e., quarter/eighth note triplets. To my mind, this notation is a little harder to read as there is a little bit more ink on the paper (the bracketed 3). Notation Composer has the very nice feature that allows you to write this style of swing notation (called Standard Rhythm) and convert it to Swing Rhythm. This looks cleaner to the player, because the quarter/eighth note pairs are replaced with eighth notes, i.e., the conversion to Swing Rhythm for B would make it look like C -- a lot less cluttered. The score and the individual parts would have to instruct the players to perform the piece with a “swing feel”. This is the best of all possible worlds for writing and reading swing music, however, as discussed in my original post, the feel when Notation is playing the piece is not the way it would sound if a human swing band were playing it -- the dotted eighth/sixteenth notation is too herky-jerky and the quarter/eighth triplet notation is close, but not close enough to my ear. My goal in writing these swing pieces is to be able to play along with my Clavinova, which is “my band”, as I don’t have a local group of part-time musicians to play with. Therefore, I want “my band” to play as close to what this human will play. The best I can approximate this is heard in example C -- notated as described in my original post.

Admittedly, the differences are subtle -- the difference between A and B being the most noticeable, as A is a little bit choppier. The difference between B is C is a harder to hear, but I can feel it when I play along with the Clavinova. The bottom line is that it is personal taste.

Ralph Rayner
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File Type: not Yesterdays Examples.not (39.9 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by rrayner; 09-01-2017 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Updated Text
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  #3  
Old 01-06-2014, 01:35 PM
dj dj is offline
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Default Re: Swing Feel

And, it don't mean a thing if ain't got that . . . you know . . . what's that called?
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  #4  
Old 01-07-2014, 05:53 PM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default Re: Swing Feel

In the aftermath of my cleanup after completing Yesterdays, I thought I would try to extrapolate some of the new tricks Sherry taught me.

Specifically, Sherry and David showed me how to notate glissandi by having two staves for each instrument, one hidden which contains the written-out (and hard to read) glissando, and the other visible staff showing the clean, easy to read notation for printing (see the visible and hidden staves for the baritone sax in measures 1 through 4). I thought I would try to do the same thing with the turns in measures 56 and 57. It turns out (no pun intended) that the way we were taught to play turns at Berklee is not what Mark implemented in the Notation Software, and I assume Mark's implementation is the strict classical form.

The turns we were taught at Berklee sound like the way I notated them in measures 56 and 57. When I tried to implement the Notation turns (tu) in their stead, the resulting sound is not at all what I wanted to hear the horns playing, so I will stick with the way I had originally notated the turns.

See/listen to the attached sample of those two measures: the first two measures are the way I notated the turns; the second two measures have Notation performing the turns. I'm certain that the Notation implementation of turns is legitimate -- it just doesn't fit in a jazz/swing score. You can see the way Notation has handled the turns by using the qsor command. For some reason, Notation hides the eighth notes in measure 4 for the trumpet and tenor.

There may be some refinements that I can make to the Notation turns that could capture the sound I want, but that research will have to come at a later date. Of course, I can still use the visible/hidden staves to clean up the printed parts.

Ralph
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File Type: not Turns.not (12.4 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by rrayner; 09-01-2017 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Updated text and Notation file
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  #5  
Old 01-08-2014, 12:05 AM
Sherry C's Avatar
Sherry C Sherry C is offline
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Default Re: Swing Feel

Hi Ralph,

I'm no expert, but in referring to my little "Essential Dictionary of Music" by Alfred publishing, the Notation rendering of the Turn is "correct" (according to the Dictionary, anyway) while your notation is referred to as an "Inverted Mordent".

I know that even though we think of "standardized notation", sometimes there are still differences in definition of terms due to historical or genre differences. I think this is probably one of those instances

Thanks for pointing out the difference in this instance, and for the opportunity for me to learn a bit more in the process.

ttfn,
Sherry
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  #6  
Old 01-08-2014, 12:18 AM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default Re: Swing Feel

Hi Sherry,

I was dead certain that Mark's implementation of a turn would be "spot on".

Thanks for the revisit to my school days. The term "inverted mordent" does sound familiar, although I never could have identified it as such.

Maybe you could add it to the palette??

Ralph
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