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Using Notation Software products with other (third party) products Find out from others, or share your experience, about integrating Notation Software products with sound libraries, audio processing software, and other hardware and software products.

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  #1  
Old 10-09-2005, 06:01 PM
Mark Walsen (markwa)
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Default Hello Everyone, What tool d

Hello Everyone,

What tool do you use for converting MIDI to wave or mp3?

There has been some discussion elsewhere in the forum about this.

Cheers
-- Mark
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  #2  
Old 10-10-2005, 06:40 AM
Sherry Crann (sherry)
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Default Howdy Mark, I use either Au

Howdy Mark,

I use either Audacity (free) or Creative Wave Studio (came with my soundcard) to record the performance from Composer. I use this method because I use soundfonts a lot for getting a good sound. If I'm using Garritan Personal Orchestra, I will either use their built-in record function, or I'll still use Audacity or Creative Wave Studio, just depending on what else I've been doing and am set up for.
I suppose this is a method of conversion

ttfn,
Sherry
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  #3  
Old 10-10-2005, 02:22 PM
David Jacklin (dj)
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Default Hi, Mark: Magix Midi Studio

Hi, Mark:

Magix Midi Studio or Music Studio, or Power Tracks Pro Audio, or Cakewalk Express, or Roland VSC3, or just plain old Windows Sound Recorder if I want to do it fast.

I've d/l'd Audacity but haven't had a chance to get to know it. It seems similar to Magix Music Studio.

David
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  #4  
Old 10-11-2005, 11:14 AM
Jim Seiler (jimcbb)
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Default Hi Mark - I use Mid Convert

Hi Mark -

I use Mid Converter (v4.2)from Plimus. It has a simple, straight forward interface, seems to do a pretty good job, and it was relatively cheap - $29.95. While I'm on the subject of midi files, I made a few posts in a different area of the forum about repeats. The discussion revolved around whether the music file was started at the beginning or somewhere in the middle. I can live with the way Composer works, although it might sometimes be a bit inconvenient. However, when I converted my .not file to a .mid file, all the repeat information was lost. Is this due to a limitation in midi file formats, or is it something Composer just can't/doesn't do. My workaround is to cut and paste the repeated sections inline into the .not file, and save this as a .mid file. This creates much longer, larger files, more pages in the score, and seems inefficient. But it works. Does Composer have the capability for perform this function, or can you suggest an easer, less labor-intesive way to do this? Any thoughts . . . . .?

Thanks,

Jim
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  #5  
Old 10-11-2005, 12:38 PM
David Jacklin (dj)
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Default Hi, Jim: When saving as a .

Hi, Jim:

When saving as a .mid file, you have to manually select "Write out repeats and separate lyric versions in saved MIDI file" in the "Save As" dialogue box for Composer to save the repeats. One check box and it works a treat.

David
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  #6  
Old 10-11-2005, 08:09 PM
Jim Seiler (jimcbb)
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Default David - Thanks for the hint

David -

Thanks for the hint. It was right there in front of me and I missed it. It seemed like such an obvious way to do this I was sure that Composer must have had the capability, but I guess I used the wrong key words in my search. Composer is so feature-rich, IMHO, that I really need to take some time to just study it. I'm usually is such a hurry to get a project done that I gloss over subjects that have no current interest or utility. The stuff I do for my choral group is only one of upteen projects I always have going. I may be a bit lazy, but I'm also a bit busy. Mark's tutorial is great as an introduction to the product, but the majority of the work I and probably most other users do, goes far beyond what a reasonable tutorial can provide.

In reading through the entries posted in the forum, there seem to be several MN gurus who might want to take a shot at an "advanced" tutorial.

Jim
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  #7  
Old 11-11-2006, 06:56 AM
Dale Hadley (dalester)
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Default Hello all, I recently downl

Hello all,

I recently downloaded the trial version of Midi to MP3 Maker to try and create an MP3 file from my Midi Notate .mid file. The file converted OK, but when I hit "Play", I got no sound, only a "click" in my speakers. I also tried to play the newly-created file with MusicMatch Jukebox and got the same thing. The slider moves as if it's trying to play something, but no output. When I select an MP3 file not converted by MP3 maker, Jukebox plays it fine.

I tried all the suggestions in the "Help" section, but nothing worked. I feel as if I'm missing something really obvious, but can't think of what it is. If anyone can offer a suggestion, it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,

Dale
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  #8  
Old 11-11-2006, 07:34 AM
Clyde (clyde)
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Default Hi Dale, Theer are lots of

Hi Dale,
Theer are lots of ways you can do what you want.

To understand the process think of the old pianola days. There was the paper pianola roll istelf, and the actual pianola which obeyed the instructions on the roll. The sound came from the pianola, not the roll, the paper roll was simply instructions to the piano to play certain notes.

And so it is with Midi and audio sound.

The midi file is like the pianola roll. A series of instructions to tell some system what note to play. You need some instrument to receive those instructions and actually make the sound.

There are several options here:

(a) The cheapest, and no cost way is to play them through your sound card (the sound card does a midi to wave convervision like the pianola). Then capture the sound that comes out of your sound card. There is a very good program to do that (and its free) called Audacity (see www.audacity.sourceforge.net). Audacity can capture the sound output going through your sound card (You may have to experiment with the Audacity 'line in').

(Incidentally Audacity is a great program to have, as it also allows you to edit your wave file (eg trim of unwanted starts and ends, normalise the sound etc) and also converts from WAV to MP3. And the price is right - FREE!!)

(b) You can play it directly into a keyboard, and then record that sound somehow, and then convert it to MP3 using Audacity. You might record it on a cassette tape, and then replaying it back into your computer using Audacity to capture the sound coming in. There will be a bit of loss of quality going from digital to analogue and and then back to digital, plus the hiss introduced by the tape. But I hope you can get the idea.

(c) Use a Software soundcard.

The cheapest of these I know is the Roland VSC (see www.pgmusic.com)

If you are into orchestral, or big bands or jazz bands, then the Garritan software is great, and it all works with Composer (see http://www.garritan.com/ - it is pricey, and requires at least 1GB of RAM)

If you are into organ music (as I am) I can recommend the Hauptwerk software from Crumhorn-labs (see http://www.cyberhymnal.org/) . Again it is not cheap and requires at least 1GB of RAM.

(NOTE: like with the pianola system, the quality of the result depends on the quality of the piano, not the pianoloa roll. So with midi/MP3, it is the quality of midi to WAV convertor that determines the quality of the result).

A search of the internet using Google (Midi to WAV) will reveal a lot of software out there, and then use Audacity to convert WAV to MP3.

I hope that helps you get started - but have a look first at the free option just using Audacity (you need to also download a free MP3 encoder for the conversion to MP3 - but it is explained in the Audacity system).

Cheers ... Clyde
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  #9  
Old 11-11-2006, 07:40 AM
Clyde (clyde)
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Default Hi Dale, I think I didn

Hi Dale,
I think I didn't answer your question - I was a bit blinkered by the forum topic (How to convert Midi to MP3) and not specifically about the 'MP3 Maker' software that you are trying.

Sorry about that, and I can't help you with MP3 Maker.

Clyde
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  #10  
Old 11-11-2006, 08:51 AM
Dale Hadley (dalester)
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Default Hello Clyde, Thanks for the

Hello Clyde,

Thanks for the quick response. I enjoyed reading your reply anyway... it was very informative... plus I didn't know about the Audacity product. Maybe I'll have better luck with that.

Thanks again!

Regards,

Dale
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  #11  
Old 11-11-2006, 09:29 AM
M G Jacobs (mgj32)
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Default Hi Dale, If you can hear th

Hi Dale,

If you can hear the .mid file when you play it in Midinotate and Windows Media Player, this suggests either that MP3 Maker doesn't work or there is a setting that needs adjustment.

As Clyde suggests, midi needs to be recorded rather than "converted." Perhaps MP3 Maker does this and calls it conversion. I am not familiar with the product or how one sets it.

Audacity is a good way to get the .mp3 file, as Clyde also suggests. Record it there and you can save it to whatever format you want.

Synthfont (www.synthfont.com) sounds a bit more like MP3 Maker,in that you load the .mid file then play it, saving it to an .mp3, .wav, or whatever, file. Synthfont does the playing and saving; it's the only program you need open at that point.

Good luck,
mgj
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2006, 02:05 PM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Hi Dale, I get my best midi

Hi Dale,

I get my best midi to wav or mp3 conversions using Itunes. It's free and the conversions are always perfect. It's not advertised for that purpose, but it works like a charm. If you don't have Itunes, you can download it from the web site.
Select the "edit" tab. Select "Preferrences". Under preferrences select the "import" tag. Then select "import using", select "wav encoder" or MP3 Encoder or whatever encoder you wish. Add the midi file to the library, then right click on the file and you will see a selection to convert to whatever encoder you have selected.
Cheers,
Fred
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2006, 03:04 AM
Dale Hadley (dalester)
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Default Hello Fred, mgj, Clyde, Tha

Hello Fred, mgj, Clyde,

Thank you all for your suggestions. Sorry if I wasn't too specific at the beginning about what I'm trying to do. I was hoping to take my MidiNotate Composer .mid files (which were recorded live from my digital piano and then renamed from .not to .mid) and ultimately convert them to .mp3 or .wav and burn my performances to be playable on CD or MP3 players.

It looks like my best option is to use Audacity to capture the piano sound of my recorded MidiNotate performances going thru my sound card. It doesn't look like MP3 Maker will do that for me... maybe I was using the wrong product for what I’m trying to do.

Since I'd like my music to sound like a real grand piano instead of the typical "midi piano sound" is there a product which will "override" the music effects on my sound card (or wherever they come from) and provide an authentic "Carnegie Hall" piano sound? And would it be compatible with Audacity?

I'm amazed at the amount of helpful knowledge on this forum! Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Dale
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2006, 03:33 AM
Clyde (clyde)
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Default Hi Dale, If you like the s

Hi Dale,
If you like the sound from your digital piano, then the best thing is to record that with Audacity.

To do this, simply take take a cable from the earphone output on your keyboard, and plug the other end into your soundcard and use Audacity to record the wave file, and create the MP3. (Alternatively you can record from a micophone with audacity)

If you are looking for a better piano sound, then the situation is different. This create a midi file, either through getting your keyboard doing it directly (if it has the facility) or plug a midi cable into the midi out on your keyboard, and the plug the other end into the midi in on your sound card (if it has one). Use Composer to record your actualy playing.

If you go for the midi approach, then you need some good piano sound system to convert midi instruction into an audio sound. As I indicated in an earlier answer, there are lots of solutions to this, all will cost you money. I like the piano on Roland VSC. Garritan GPO have grand piano's in their orchestral systems, and I would assume other pianos in the band and jazz packages.

Your last paragraph:
Since I'd like my music to sound like a real grand piano instead of the typical "midi piano sound" is there a product which will "override" the music effects on my sound card (or wherever they come from) and provide an authentic "Carnegie Hall" piano sound? And would it be compatible with Audacity?

seems to me to imply that you want to go the midi method, and then use another package to create the sound. You can do this easily , and also in Composer when you tell the system which device you want to use to create your sounds, then that will automatically switch of your sound card generated midi sound.

(Incidentally I do something similiar to all this every day, except instead of piano sounds I have organ sounds. I play it on my Roland Atelier organ, it generates a midi file, I use that in Composer to correct my errors in playing, I then play using Composer that corrected music through some better organ sounds (from www.crumhorn-labs.com) and then use Audacity to create my MP3 file, which I then upload to my web page - www.smallchurchmusic.com ).

Cheers ... Clyde
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2006, 04:23 AM
Dale Hadley (dalester)
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Default Hello Clyde, Thanks for the

Hello Clyde,

Thanks for the reply. You are doing exactly what I am doing now. I have an interface that converts "midi out" on my piano to "USB in" on my desktop and I record into MidiNotate that way. Apparently what I need to do is purchase some better piano sounds (soundfonts?) that I can play the MidiNotate through and use Audacity to create the MP3 files and burn the results to a playable disk.

I assume that these "soundfonts" are software only and that I won't have to install a different soundcard to make them work?

Regards,

Dale
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2006, 05:17 AM
Mark Walsen (markwa)
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Default Hello Jim, Clyde, David, Dale,

Hello Jim, Clyde, David, Dale, and M.G.,

I'll leak some Notation news. We already have Save As Wave implemented. This feature won't be included in version 2.0, because it's coupled with some other features I'm not ready to release. I'm not ready to pre-announce what types of sound sources can be saved to wave files with this new feature, except that "out of the box" it will save MIDI playback rendered by the Microsoft GS Wavetable SoftSynth.

Oh, gosh, what I have done? Why am I pre-announcing this? I didn't ask Sherry whether I should have.

You probably have lots of questions about this that I won't want to answer until after 2.0 is released. One question you'll ask is: when?
That question I will answer now: This Save As Wave feature will be included in a 2.1 release scheduled for sometime in February.

Sherry, you can't tell anyone anymore that the above. Bite your lips until they bleed. ;-)

Cheers
-- Mark
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2006, 03:19 PM
Fred Winterling (harbor1)
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Default Hello Mark, >quote: 

Hello Mark,

>quote: "Oh, gosh, what I have done? Why am I pre-announcing this?"

Because you wanted to make Fred a very happy puppy!!!!!!!

Cheers,
Fred
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2006, 04:40 PM
Sherry Crann (sherry)
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Default Howdy guys, Oh my, Mark, no

Howdy guys,

Oh my, Mark, now you have Fred drooling all over his computer ;)

And where is that wet noodle - I think Mark deserves at least 40 of the best )

ttfn,
Sherry "nowbitingmylipveryhard" Crann
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  #19  
Old 11-27-2006, 03:16 AM
Dale Hadley (dalester)
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Default Hello, Thanks to all on thi

Hello,

Thanks to all on this forum who offered suggestions. After struggling with MP3 Maker and Audacity trying to convert my self-recorded piano midi files to MP3, I decided to try Fred's suggestion to use iTunes. It worked "right out of the box" after the free download with nothing to configure or any settings to worry about. It played the file while converting it and iTunes even has a burner so I can do it all right there.

Great forum!

Regards,

Dale
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  #20  
Old 12-06-2006, 08:51 AM
Dale Hadley (dalester)
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Default Hello Everyone, I have succ

Hello Everyone,

I have successfully loaded my Steinway piano soundfonts into my SoundBlaster card and my midi piano files sound great. However, when I convert them to mp3 using iTunes, they lose their Steinway font sound and revert back to that synthetic midi piano sound. When I burn the converted mp3 files to CD, they'll play in my CD player, but not with the concert hall piano sound I had hoped for. Does anyone know of a way to convert midi to mp3 while retaining the soundfont information? Or is it just not possible?
Thanks in advance,

Dale
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  #21  
Old 12-06-2006, 08:59 AM
Clyde (clyde)
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Default Hi Dale, You can always tr

Hi Dale,
You can always try the free product Audacity and record what is actually being played by your sound card. I assume that will work with Soundblaster.

If that works, you are actually recoring what you hear.

The soundblaster experts may have a better solution.

Cheers ... Clyde
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  #22  
Old 12-06-2006, 09:10 AM
M G Jacobs (mgj32)
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Default Hi Dale, Clyde is right: Au

Hi Dale,

Clyde is right: Audacity will work fine. You might have to experiment some with playback levels in the Creative Mixer and recording levels in Audacity. I think Audacity has "what u hear" as a source option.

all best,
mgj
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  #23  
Old 12-06-2006, 12:29 PM
David Jacklin (dj)
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Default Hi, all: Bearing in mind, o

Hi, all:

Bearing in mind, of course, in converting to mp3's, you'll lose a lot of that "Steinway" sparkle.

I've never understood why, after a century and a quarter of progress from wax cylinders to 16-bit and now 24 and even 32-bit recording, the public has willingly embraced a significant reduction in sound quality in order to have a cool little playback device.

Betamax forever!

David
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  #24  
Old 12-06-2006, 07:30 PM
Dale Hadley (dalester)
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Default Hello all, Thanks for your

Hello all,

Thanks for your suggestions. I think the SoundBlaster software has a "what u hear" option also. If not, I'll try Audacity again.

Regards,

Dale
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  #25  
Old 12-07-2006, 11:06 AM
Herbert WENDE (herbert)
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Default Hi David I agree. Many mu

Hi David


I agree. Many musicians have good hearing for pitch. But when it comes to sound quality, many people including a good number of musicians I know seem to be deaf. The huge offer of below standard sound equipment available is clearly tailored to the majority of sound consumers. Yet the technology of sound recording and to some extend, the technology of sound reproduction, has enormously advanced over the last 30 years.

History repeats itself. For many sound consumers, reel to reel tape and LP’s were replaced with much lower quality cassette tapes, some 40 years ago and lasted for a long time.

Best wishes,

Herbert
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  #26  
Old 12-16-2006, 03:43 AM
Dale Hadley (dalester)
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Default Hello All, I've been pr

Hello All,

I've been pretty successful lately converting my self-played midi piano files to MP3 and then burning them to CD but I've noticed a problem that can mar an otherwise perfect recording. Oftentimes, the last chord of a piece gets "clipped" before the sound has a chance to naturally subside. This does not occur in MidiNotate, but only when a player like Windows media player or even iTunes plays the midi file. Since I'm converting to MP3 using the "What U Hear" module within the SoundBlaster software, this abrupt ending gets passed on to the MP3 version and ultimately to CD.

Has anyone else encountered this problem?

Thanks for any help,

Dale
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  #27  
Old 12-16-2006, 03:51 AM
Sherry Crann (sherry)
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Default Howdy Dale, You might want

Howdy Dale,

You might want to try adding an extra empty measure or two to the end of your .mid files, to give the fade out time to fade to silence before the recording ends.

Just as an aside, when burning songs to CD, you'll probably find that a silence of about 4 seconds at the end of each song is about the right "listener adjustment time" for transition to the next song. I'm not sure what editing capabilities your sound recorder has, but either you can add extra empty measures to your .mid file using Composer, or you can use the recording editor (I have Creative Wave, which came with my SB Audigy 2 card) to add that silence to the end of a song file after you've recorded it.

ttfn,
Sherry
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  #28  
Old 12-16-2006, 06:54 AM
M G Jacobs (mgj32)
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Default Hi Dale and Sherry, You'

Hi Dale and Sherry,

You're dead right: the early shut-off of sound can ruin an otherwise good recording. Adding extra measures can take care of the problem sometimes, but sometimes it doesn't, especially when a cymbal or gong, which sounds beyond the specified note duration, is involved. I have found only one sure way to get all the intended sound, and that is to add an empty measure or three and at the end of the last one add a note (on any staff) and set the note velocity to 0.

I think that Composer or the recorder stops after the last tick, not the last sound, so there needs to be a note after the sound has had time to fade.

all best,
mgj
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  #29  
Old 12-16-2006, 08:27 AM
Dale Hadley (dalester)
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Default Hi Sherry and MGJ, Thanks f

Hi Sherry and MGJ,

Thanks for the suggestions... I'll give them a try.

Regards,

Dale
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  #30  
Old 12-16-2006, 01:51 PM
Dale Hadley (dalester)
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Default Hi Sherry and MGJ, I took y

Hi Sherry and MGJ,

I took your suggestions but I discovered that when you set the note velocity in the added measures to 0, the measures don't get saved as a .mid file, but they will save as a .not file. Strange. Apparently it just won't let you save those added measures as a .mid file if there's a 0 velocity note in them.

So what I did was add the extra measures and set the added note to a velocity of 1 instead of 0 and was able to save the measures as a .mid file.

Now the last chord rings clear with no cutoff. Thanks for steering me in the right direction!

Regards,

Dale
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