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Tips and tricks for using Notation Software products Learn (and share) tips and tricks for getting the most out of your Notation Software products.

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  #1  
Old 03-29-2015, 06:10 PM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default 2x (2nd Time) Only in Repeats

One of our Notation Forum stalwarts recently made mention of a solution to a problem that has bothered me for years. In Jazz/Swing Band music, there are frequently situations where you have repeated measures and you only want part of the band to play the first time through the repeat, with others joining in the second time through the repeat. I am embarrassed to not be able to give proper tribute to the respondent that gave me the solution. Perhaps they will chime in and be recognized.

In the past, when I had this situation, I would have two copies of the score: one for printing that showed the written repeats properly; and a second copy (for capturing as a midi file) that had the repeat written out -- part of the band playing the first section of this now longhand repeat, and the others joining in on the second section. Needless to say, this was a librarian's misery.

The tip I picked up was to turn the volume down to 1 (with GraphOverNotes - hint: 0 sometimes causes trouble) on the parts that are to be played only the second time through the repeat. Then in the last measure of the repeat (or last measure of the first ending), make certain the volume is at the level you want the 2x only players to be.

In the sample included below, I have used a snippet of a big band piece I am working on. For this purpose, I have the Alto playing the melody line solo the first time through the repeat and the Baritone joining in unison an octave lower the second time through the repeat. I set the Baritone volume to 1 from measure 1 through to the next-to-last note in measure 3 (Bb3). Then, I set the volume of the last note in measure 3 (F#4) to 71 (I want the Alto voice to be the louder of the two). Having done this, the Baritone's F#4 plays at the proper volume, and because the volume for the Baritone is now turned on, when the repeat goes back to measure 2, the Baritone and Alto are now in unison -- no need to keep multiple versions of the score.

This trick may be well-known to other Notation users, but this is the first exposure I have had to the idea. I hope it is a help to others.

Ralph Rayner
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File Type: not Repeat Test.not (9.1 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by rrayner; 03-30-2015 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Corrected Sample for Exporting to MIDI
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  #2  
Old 03-29-2015, 10:34 PM
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Sherry C Sherry C is offline
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Default Re: 2x (2nd Time) Only in Repeats

Hi Ralph,

Excellent tip - that sounds like David J all over

Quote:
This trick may be well-known to other Notion users, but this is the first exposure I have had to the idea.
I'm pretty sure you meant "Notation" since "Notion" is actually a whole different program. But it might help those users, too Thanks, Sherry. RRR

Thanks for sharing!

ttfn,
Sherry
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Last edited by rrayner; 03-29-2015 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 03-30-2015, 01:09 PM
dj dj is offline
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Default Re: 2x (2nd Time) Only in Repeats

Hi, Ralph, Sherry:

If the low volume marker is set at a later point in the first "silent" bar, then the Midi export should be successful.

Hope that helps.

David
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Old 03-30-2015, 03:05 PM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default Re: 2x (2nd Time) Only in Repeats

Thank you very much, David. I changed the sample a little by first setting the volume level for the entire baritone part to 71, then setting the volume level to 1, starting at beat 4 in measure 1 through to the next-to-last note in measure 3. This works great and exports cleanly. I also changed the baritone to be a harmony part. It's a little bit easier to hear the entrance of the baritone this way. I also added one measure at the end, just to make the sample sound a little bit more complete.

Ralph
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Old 09-02-2015, 08:36 PM
rrayner rrayner is offline
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Default Re: 2x (2nd Time) Only in Repeats

Well, Sherry, David and others -- I was feeling pretty good about my workaround for this problem, but I raised another condition which makes my solution not work.

In the attached snippet, I wanted the tenor sax to solo through the first time through the repeat, and the three horn brass choir to join in on the second time through. I set the choir to volume level 1 using GraphOverNotes for measures 2 through 16; then changed the volume level of the choir to 79 in measure 17, hoping the repeat would activate the volume. Didn't work -- the choir stayed on break.

Of course, in the original example I submitted, there were notes in the first ending that I wanted to sound, so my volume level change was associated with a note in that case. So, in this example, as I don't have a note to tie to the volume change in measure 17, I guess volume never gets triggered.

Any suggestions?

Ralph
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File Type: not Ruffo's Lament-10.not (21.9 KB, 7 views)
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Old 09-03-2015, 12:19 AM
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Sherry C Sherry C is offline
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Default Re: 2x (2nd Time) Only in Repeats

Hi Ralph,

Entering such MIDI performance tricks is indeed a bit tricky The key here is (1) where you enter the volume change and (2) the order you do the volume settings because they are entered as "events' in the hidden MIDI event list.

To get the effect you're after, you'll need to have the volume 79 kick in somewhere before the end of the "Note on" event in measure 16 (you did this in the first snippet you shared in this thread, so it worked perfectly). In the snippet you have here, the volume change occurs after the note-off (end of the note) event. In messing around with your file this seemed to be a necessary condition.

You'll also want to make sure that the initial Vol 1 event happens before the beginning of measure 2, so that it doesn't negate the volume event at the end of the passage.

Each beat gets 480 "ticks". When I did the following, I was able to get the effect that you are after:

  1. Click the Staff Select button for Trumpet 1 and set the volume to 79 using the "96" button in GraphOverNotes.
  2. Select a region for Trumpet 1 of Measure 1 beat 4 tick 470 through measure 16 beat 4 tick 477.
  3. In GraphOverNotes/Volume, set the volume to 1 using the "96" button.
  4. Lather, rinse, repeat for the other choir staves, or if you want the same volume settings just copy/paste the graph to the other staves.

Now, though, is a puzzlement to me that the notes in measure 16 for the choir staves don't sound even though the other prior notes do. That we will have to investigate....

ttfn,
Sherry
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