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Using Notation Software products with other (third party) products Find out from others, or share your experience, about integrating Notation Software products with sound libraries, audio processing software, and other hardware and software products.

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  #1  
Old 09-18-2009, 11:28 PM
adrianallan adrianallan is offline
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Default Is this finally the answer to converting audio to midi - even chords ?

I couldn't quite believe what I was seeing when somebody posted me this link.

It appears that there is now a program that can successfully analyse an audio file of an instrument playing chordally and polyphonically and break it down to its component notes.

Apparently it is now widely used a pitch corrector and mistake editor in the pop music industry.

It really is just like editing midi !

Since this is a very common theme on these forums - about converting audio to midi - I'd like to recommend these videos for people to watch.

I'd be especially interested to know what Mark and Sherry think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iG3B...eature=related

go to 3:40 on this to be really impressed - the blocks on the screen are not (I repeat) midi, but analysed audio. Check out the video part 3 too.

You can download and beta test this product - see the info on the page.
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  #2  
Old 09-19-2009, 06:50 AM
Mark W Mark W is offline
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Default Re: Is this finally the answer to converting audio to midi - even chords ?

Hello Adrian,

You spotted Celemony's beta release of the Melodyne Editor on its first day. Good eyes.

Melodyne is able to detect individual notes in polyphonic music (multiple simultaneous tones) far better than any other software, commercial or academic, has ever achieved. I'm quite impressed by Celemony's accomplishment.

I believe there is a natural synergy between Melodyne, which has the world's best audio-to-MIDI technology, and Notation Composer and Musician, which has the world's best MIDI-to-notation technology. Put the two together, and you have some fairly good audio-to-MIDI-to-notation transcription!


Try this:
  1. Take a recording of a piano, guitar, or small ensemble, and convert it to Wave. Lately, I've been very happy using Free Audio Editor from http://www.free-audio-editor.com/
  2. Open the Wave file in beta release of Melodyne Editor. You can get it at http://www.celemony.com/
    [9/20/09 P.S. Oops. The beta release is available only to lucky Melodyne beta testers like myself. So, you'll have to wait for the final release. Well, in the mean time, at least check out the video the the upcoming Melodyn Editor, which (the video) you can find at http://www.celemony.com/cms/.]
  3. Have a great time exploring Melodyne Editor. But this step isn't required.
  4. Use the File Save As command to save the output as a MIDI file.
  5. Open the MIDI file in Notation Composer or Musician.
  6. Play the MIDI file, and you'll be pretty amazed how closely the notes resemble the audio recording. If it doesn't sound perfect, don't get too picky. Believe me, this is a nearly miraculous accomplishment in software development, which many people spending years attempting have been very discourage at in the last 15 years that I've been watching. Melodyne's note detection already very good; and I'm sure it will get even better.
  7. Notice that the notated barlines are often misplaced. That makes sight-reading the notation relatively difficult. Nevertheless, if you are a keyboardist, you can still get your fingers on the notes, even if the rhythms sometimes are off-beat.
I've done this for some Oscar Peter jazz piano recordings, and some Scottish/Celtic music by a local 3-musician ensemble (The McKassons), that I wasn't able to play by ear, but could work out on the piano from the above transcribed recording. It totally opened up a new world of possibilities for me in playing the piano.

To say that I'm excited about Celemony's Melodye and Direct Note Access (DNA) technology would be an understatement.

Cheers
-- Mark
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  #3  
Old 09-19-2009, 02:38 PM
dj dj is offline
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Default Re: Is this finally the answer to converting audio to midi - even chords ?

Hi, all:

I've used Melodyne for audio pitch correction a few times and it is, indeed, extremely impressive.

I saw the announcement about the new version in Keyboard a while back and was quite excited. Nice to hear that it lives up to the hype.

David
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Old 09-19-2009, 05:42 PM
adrianallan adrianallan is offline
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Default Re: Is this finally the answer to converting audio to midi - even chords ?

Thanks for the two replies.

I think that this sortware starts an exciting new age. It is also, conversely slightly worrying how common it is in the pop world. Any sort of glitch can be fixed with ease.

There are now real time pitch correctors for singers and this is why a lot of drummers wear headphones - they are playing to a click track so that the singer can lock into the auto-tune. How common this is amongst major acts now I'm not sure ?

So on the one hand I love this software, but maybe I long for a day when a mistake was a mistake and live performances and one-take recordings were more engaging for that reason.

But I will be trying out the beta and then exporting the midi to notation composer to see what happens !
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Old 09-19-2009, 06:16 PM
Mark W Mark W is offline
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Default Re: Is this finally the answer to converting audio to midi - even chords ?

Hello Adrian,

Quote:
So on the one hand I love this software, but maybe I long for a day when a mistake was a mistake and live performances and one-take recordings were more engaging for that reason.
This controversy has been going on for many years already; but the controversy will be intensified by the widespread capability to correct performance mistakes in recordings.

Here's a positive way to view this. As listeners, we will be able to choose the kind of listening experience we value, on a case by case basis. If I want to hear the immediacy of a live jazz performance, I can listen to a recording that has been intentionally left uncorrected. Or, I can listen to a live jazz performance!

If I want to hear Chopin played by Van Cliburn exactly as he played it, uncorrected, then I can listen to his historical recording.

If I want to hear some techno music performed intentionally flawlessly, corrected for live performance errors, then I can acquire such a recording.

Both we the listeners and the performing artistics will work it out in the marketplace what music is offered as live uncorrected performances, what music is offered with corrections, and which music is offered both ways.

If one perfers always to hear live uncorrected performances, then the market is likely to satisfy that taste, as there will be many who prefer live uncorrected performances. Those who prefer live uncorrected performances probably need not worry that performance correction made possible by technology such as Celemony's will suck the human character out of recordings. There might even grow to be a more distinct dichotomy between live performances and recordings, so that live performances will be appreciated, and so that performing artists will be rewarded in the marketplace for performing live.

The above speaks about the relationship between the listener and the performing musician. Consider now also the composer. If I want my own composition to be presented to listeners with quality more faithful to my intentions as a composer, not limited by my own piano keyboard skills, then I now have the option to prepare the performance in slow-time rather than real-time. I am thrilled to have that option, since the only only other practical option would be to convince some other better musician to study and perform my composition. My piano compositions may not be worthy to be hear by others; but at least I can now perform my compositions on the piano as I would like them to be heard... after some editing using Celemony's Melodyne. Sigh... if I only could spare the time to do that. I'm so envious of you who get spend time using these products instead of spending rediculous hours making them.

Cheers
-- Mark
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  #6  
Old 03-03-2010, 10:38 PM
adrianallan adrianallan is offline
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Default Re: Is this finally the answer to converting audio to midi - even chords ?

Another little clue that the world of polyphonic note recognition is with us (and ever improving) I received this e-mail today

Dear Adrian,

The first ever Polyphonic Guitar Tuner is now in stock at Gear4music.com.

Play a chord and the PolyTune will show you which strings are out of tune immediately.

Sounds
like a useful gadget !

In ten years' time... a program that can transcribe an full orchestra ?
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  #7  
Old 03-03-2010, 11:34 PM
Mark W Mark W is offline
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Default Re: Is this finally the answer to converting audio to midi - even chords ?

Hello Adrian,

Quote:
Another little clue that the world of polyphonic note recognition is with us (and ever improving) I received this e-mail today:
Quote:
Play a chord and the PolyTune will show you which strings are out of tune immediately.

Sounds
like a useful gadget !

In ten years' time... a program that can transcribe an full orchestra ?
Yes, a guitar chord recognition tool is definitely useful for the purpose describe in the name of this tool: Polyphonic Guitar Tune.

However, recognizing a single chord played on the guitar is child's play compared to recognizing a stream of notes played on the guitar. The latter is what Melodyne Editor by Celemony already does pretty well.

In ten year's time, will there be a program that can transcribe a full orchestra? I suspect not. I would be thrilled if in 10 years there were a program that could transcribe orchestral music as well as Melodyne Editor today can transcribe polyphonic instruments (piano, guitar), voice (!) and very small ensembles. I had been waiting for the entire life-span of Notation Software (15 years) polyphonic transcription, and had given up hope a couple years ago that I'd ever see anything as good as what Celemony has now delivered with the Melodyne Editor.

I haven't seen the Polyphonic Guitar Tuner used, so I won't make any assessment about whether it does well at its claimed job of recognizing singularly played chords. Even if it does a fantastic job at that, though, that accomplishment is almost almost irrelevant to our hope for good note recognition (transcription) of audio stream data.

Cheers
-- Mark
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