Note Duration Question

[rrayner]

The Help Guide tells me that a quarter note gets 480 ticks, yet when I score notes smaller than a quarter note, the total number of ticks does not add up to 480 ticks. This is more of a curiosity question really. It's probably explained very nicely in the Help Guide, and I just haven't found it yet.

In the attached snippet, I have the same phrase scored two ways; one with dotted eighths and sixteenths; the other with swing triplets. In the former, a dotted eighth has 345 ticks and the sixteenth has 113 ticks. This is a total of 458 ticks, well short of 480 ticks. In the latter, the quarter note part of the triplet has 309 ticks and the triplet eighth note has 153 ticks - again, well short of 480 ticks at 462 ticks. To further muddle the question, two ordinary eighth notes would each have 233 ticks each, for a total of 466 ticks.

As time has a precise mathematical attribute, where do the missing ticks go? One presumes there is a space between notes when there is no "sound". In all these years of using Notation Composer, this "open space" had never occurred to me - probably has something to do with decay of sound, etc., i.e., an eighth note would really be 240 ticks, but 7 ticks are left off of the sound to provide separation between the notes. Sounds probable.

I probably didn't need to post this question, as I seem to be figuring it out as I try to explain my question. Perhaps in my eighth note example, it is sound on for 233 ticks, sound off for 7 ticks, etc.

I guess I'll go ahead and post the question anyway, in case there are others who have wondered about this.

Ralph

[Sherry C]

Hi Ralph,

Good eyes to notice that "it don't add up"

Actually the ticks for multiple notes (eg. multiple 16th notes versus a quarter note) won't add up because (as you guessed) there are spaces allowed. Those spaces were actually the result of a lot of research and trial and error, and they're there for a variety of reasons.

First is that if there were no spaces, then some MIDI playback devices would not play properly. (eg. Please see this post as well as the original post that is linked within that.) That's a purely pragmatic point.

Another reason is that for most instruments at most times, there is a slight space between the played notes to give them some definition. "Legato" playing blurs that definition between notes, but most of the time we don't play legato (unless directed to). Ergo, the "space" between notes sounds more natural for playback. This is a consideration for Notation Composer, when folks are adding in notes using a mouse or the keyboard.

You may have noticed that the "space ticks" aren't the same for different note durations. These numbers are indeed based on measurements of real players playing pieces, and the averages used in the table (getting there in a minute) that is used to set ticks for various note durations. Mark did a lot of research to try and make the software sound like real people without having to have a "humanize" option (though there are other aspects of "humanization" as well.

These spaces (or "slop", if you will), come into play in the reverse case as well, where Notation software (Player, Musician, and Composer) is transcribing a .mid recording (or your playing into Composer, which is the same thing) into readable sheet music. The note duration in the table is an average duration for a given note. However, there is a degree of flexibility (plus/minus), or a "range of durations", that is allowed for a particular "MIDI note on event" (aka "note") to still be a given note. So yes, the "assigned" tick value for a quarter note is 480, but a MIDI note-on event of a range around 480 will be transcribed as a quarter note, too.

Why is this important? You can try out a few other programs that transcribe MIDI-to-notation to see Most other programs will give you very strict notation - you'll see all sorts of teensy rests (eg. 64th note rests) and double-dotted notes all over the place. Quite the mess for an "everyday musician" (and others) to read and play. Our software tries to eliminate that type of "busyness" and just give you something you can actually sit down with immediately to read and play.

If you want to mess around with the Note Durations table (or need to set one back to default for any reason), you can find it in Notation Composer (with a song open) using Piano Roll/Save and apply note duration adjustments (far right button on palette buttons row)/Edit note durations (first button on left of the tool palette).
A dialog will open that will look like the following:

NoteDurationTable.png

You can mess around with them if you want, or use the table above to reset to "factory standards"

Hope this wasn't too much of an explanation, but since you asked

ttfn,
Sherry

[rrayner]

Hi Sherry,

Thank you for the detailed information. You've got me wondering now if perhaps there might be an explanation and a workaround for my long-time complaint about not being able to smooth out the transition between notes. I've had phrases that frustrated me, because I wanted them to be more legato. Each note in an intended legato section sounds so percussive to me, such as a sax section playing whole/half note spread voicings under a soloist. As long as a particular part changes pitch, perhaps I can use the a- and a+ commands to smooth the transition from note to note. As it stands now, each new note seems to be attacked too hard for legato phrasing. I know we've discussed my concern a number of times over the years, but I've never been able to implement a solution that sounds good.

In the example I sent, I was playing around with trying to get a more realistic swing feeling -- somewhere in between dotted eighths/sixteenths and swing triplets, by manipulating the attack and duration values. I haven't been successful yet, but I'll keep trying.

Ralph

[Sherry C]

Hi Ralph,

Originally Posted by rrayner

Thank you for the detailed information. You've got me wondering now if perhaps there might be an explanation and a workaround for my long-time complaint about not being able to smooth out the transition between notes. I've had phrases that frustrated me, because I wanted them to be more legato. Each note in an intended legato section sounds so percussive to me, such as a sax section playing whole/half note spread voicings under a soloist. As long as a particular part changes pitch, perhaps I can use the a- and a+ commands to smooth the transition from note to note. As it stands now, each new note seems to be attacked too hard for legato phrasing.

To work on the underlying performance, you'll probably want to use the Piano Roll/Edit only the performance of the notes. That way, you can mess around with the performed duration but leave the way the notes are notated intact.

Another aspect that will affect how smooth and legato a note sounds is the MIDI playback device that you use, along with the Note Velocity of the particular note. For some playback devices, the Note Velocity of a particular note will dramatically affect the actual attack sound of the note. For whistles (or panpipes and other "simple" winds), we call it "chiff" that you hear on the attack of a "high note velocity" type of blowing hard on a note - you get a little "windy" sound along with the note. Various instruments have their own characteristics of a "high note velocity" attack.

For instance, for a sax or other wind instrument in some libraries, a Note Velocity of 127 (the highest value) will give a definite,and crisp attack when the note begins. It can also give a higher loudness to the note. So, if you have a passage that you want legato and still have a higher volume, you may need to (1) increase the duration of the note (while in "Edit performance only" mode), (2) decrease the Note Velocity and (3) possibly increase the volume over that note/those notes to maintain the proper sonic balance.

There is also the aspect of a particular sound source (MIDI playlback device.) Some of them simply don't have the dynamic range to allow such fine-tuned finessing of the sound (the default GS Wavetable comes immediately to mind ). Some of them also have other MIDI controllers than the ones I mentioned above that can affect the sound of note attacks. For example, Garritan Libraries and EastWest Libraries have "key switch" instruments, where the attacks on the notes are different depending on the "key switch" that is on for a particular stretch of notes, similar to the more common MIDI Sound Change.

In the example I sent, I was playing around with trying to get a more realistic swing feeling -- somewhere in between dotted eighths/sixteenths and swing triplets, by manipulating the attack and duration values. I haven't been successful yet, but I'll keep trying.

That's the spirit
In some pieces that I've done (mostly just for my own practice), I usually get the desired effect with the (1) increased duration of a first note (leaving the original attack in place but moving its endpoint) and (2) a delayed attack of a following note (which will also decrease its duration but leave its endpoint intact). If you figure out what values for the duration of the one, and the attack delay of the other suit you, you can then select any other notes you want to edit and use the quick "d=XYZ" (XYZ being a numerical value) and "a=XYZ" to make further changes to similar pairs.

These are really some "power user" tools you're getting into here!

ttfn,
Sherry

[aulos43]

Hi folks,

MIDI has many mysteries, especially when looking for a realistic sound. Under Piano Roll, using Edit as-performed, I've attempted to implement various articulations by adjusting the lengths of notes, such as: last note under a slur ~= -1/6 or -1/7 of the full number of ticks; or for staccato ~= -1/2 full number of ticks. Also, some of the string-section textures I encounter in transcribing sinfonie seem to need adjustment, e.g., the many repeated notes in some chordal accompaniment passages need more space after them to imply the change of bow direction between notes.

Haven't gone the other way to get a better legato, but now I think I'll give it a try.

Swing and "humanization" and other "feel" features I have stayed away from lately. This may be largely due to my preference for "square" music. In the early sequencers that I used (Dr T's KCS and CLab Notator) I did more recording from my midi keyboard synthesizer, with a fair amount of improvising in more popular idioms, but even then, capturing or superimposing swing feel left a lot of tedious editing to be done.

Though I've tried to produce realistic sounding midi-based music -- with Notation Composer, CUBASE, Logic Pro or Aria (Garritan) -- in the back of my mind I think of midi-based works as sketches: preliminary impressions of the intended music -- even though I have no access to performing groups at this time.

OK, this has been a ramble.

Walt

[dj]

Hi, Walt, Ralph, Sherry:

I recall that the first "swing" feature on a midi sequencer happened when Roger Linn tried to add quantization to one of his drum machines. The processor was so slow that it chopped off some notes and lengthened others. Instant "swing".

Of course, the best way to capture human feel in a midi recording is to play it live, but my fingers don't always manage it. Multi-tracking helps a lot and Composer's step-time record mode is a useful tool for "real" performance feel. I find that the variations in volume of notes are as important as the variations in length for human feel, and step-time recording captures those variations.

In the end, even the best real-time performance can often require note-by-note editing, though.

Nature of the beast.

David