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  #1  
Old 12-22-2009, 05:48 PM
KenRyan KenRyan is offline
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Default Imported Midi In Wrong Key With Wrong Note Timing?

What can I do to increase the likelihood that Notation Composer will import a midi file correctly? Last week everything imported perfectly. But today it's in the wrong key and the notes are shifted too far to the left.

I've double-checked the midi file, and it is quantized to the grid. It plays correctly against the click track in the audio program.

Thanks.

Ken
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2009, 07:09 PM
KenRyan KenRyan is offline
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Default Re: Imported Midi In Wrong Key With Wrong Note Timing?

Disregard this one! I figured it out. It had to do with how I was saving my midi file in the audio program. As for the key, that was just a matter of changing it in Notation Composer.

Just in case anyone else had this question.

Ken
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  #3  
Old 02-08-2010, 01:44 AM
malmeida_pt2001
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Default Re: Imported Midi In Wrong Key With Wrong Note Timing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenRyan View Post
What can I do to increase the likelihood that Notation Composer will import a midi file correctly? Last week everything imported perfectly. But today it's in the wrong key and the notes are shifted too far to the left.

I've double-checked the midi file, and it is quantized to the grid. It plays correctly against the click track in the audio program.

Thanks.

Ken
Hi,

I very often experience what I think it is a similar or related timing problem.

After importing a midi file into composer very often notes are not perfectly synchronized.

Even if notes are in the same position of the interval ruler no coincidence of sounds happens.


Tks.

MAlmeida
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  #4  
Old 02-08-2010, 02:16 AM
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Sherry C Sherry C is offline
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Default Re: Imported Midi In Wrong Key With Wrong Note Timing?

Hi,

Did you see that in Ken's response to his own post that the issue turned out to be a parameter in the way he was exporting the .mid file from his audio application? Which software are you using, and perhaps you could include the exported .mid file here for me to look at?

Please do be aware that if you're using an application that claims to analyze an audio file and then export a MIDI file, there are very few that can do this with any degree of accuracy even for single-note melody lines. If you're trying to export a multi-instrument file, it will most likely not yield very good results. I certainly don't mean to be discouraging, just realistic Analyzing the pitches correctly within the scope of harmonics, natural vibrato and slides, and nailing the rhythm exactly correctly given variations in human playing, and other considerations make getting an audio file transcribed to MIDI a very difficult task. Notation products do a great job of transcribing MIDI to notation, but it needs a good MIDI file to start with

The good news is that we are currently working on a soon-to-be released feature that will help tremendously with setting proper barlines in such MIDI files. I'd be glad to take a look at your file and see if it would benefit from that new feature.

ttfn,
Sherry
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  #5  
Old 02-08-2010, 12:10 PM
malmeida_pt2001
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Default Re: Imported Midi In Wrong Key With Wrong Note Timing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherry C View Post
Hi,

Did you see that in Ken's response to his own post that the issue turned out to be a parameter in the way he was exporting the .mid file from his audio application? Which software are you using, and perhaps you could include the exported .mid file here for me to look at?

Please do be aware that if you're using an application that claims to analyze an audio file and then export a MIDI file, there are very few that can do this with any degree of accuracy even for single-note melody lines. If you're trying to export a multi-instrument file, it will most likely not yield very good results. I certainly don't mean to be discouraging, just realistic Analyzing the pitches correctly within the scope of harmonics, natural vibrato and slides, and nailing the rhythm exactly correctly given variations in human playing, and other considerations make getting an audio file transcribed to MIDI a very difficult task. Notation products do a great job of transcribing MIDI to notation, but it needs a good MIDI file to start with

The good news is that we are currently working on a soon-to-be released feature that will help tremendously with setting proper barlines in such MIDI files. I'd be glad to take a look at your file and see if it would benefit from that new feature.

ttfn,
Sherry
Dear Sherry

I understand your explanation and hope to see the enhancements, you explained, soon.
My rational was: after getting a midi file from an instrument (.mid) and importing to notation file (.not) would give me a full graphical view with nothing else underneath.
So when a note in exactly below another in the staff of the 2nd instrument (and suppose that both are "25 - Acoustic Guitar (nylon)" they should be absolutely synchronized, so sounding at the same time when playing the generated audio.
That, very often, doesn't happen.
The only workaround I found, to get a perfect audio sound, is to print the music sheet and create a brand new sheet, in Notation Composer, note by note, measure by measure.
It's ok but hard work.

Tks.
Mario
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  #6  
Old 02-08-2010, 01:14 PM
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Sherry C Sherry C is offline
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Default Re: Imported Midi In Wrong Key With Wrong Note Timing?

Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by malmeida_pt2001 View Post
My rational was: after getting a midi file from an instrument (.mid) and importing to notation file (.not) would give me a full graphical view with nothing else underneath.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "full graphical view with nothing else underneath." Can you please explain a little more what you mean here? (Maybe I'm just missing it because I haven't had my coffee yet )

Quote:
So when a note in exactly below another in the staff of the 2nd instrument (and suppose that both are "25 - Acoustic Guitar (nylon)" they should be absolutely synchronized, so sounding at the same time when playing the generated audio.
That, very often, doesn't happen.
I think I understand the issue here. Some MIDI files will have notes that Composer shows as beginning on the same beat, but don't sound exactly on the same beat. This is where the transcription (and you can change these options in Setup/Transcription options) from the MIDI to sheet music tries to make some allowance for performance differences and still give accurate sheet music.

One example is whether you want to transcribe the MIDI file quite precisely by not removing any rests. This shows all the details of a performance, including rests of very small duration. If you want a "cleaner" and simpler score, you can remove rests of varying duration. You can use Format/Retranscribe if you've already opened a file, but want to change any of these transcription options.

Another example is the performance versus notation of "swing" style pieces. To keep swing notation cleaner, certain performance aspects (eg. triplets) are assumed and so not included in the score.

For another example, a strummed guitar chord actually sounds as a very fast arpeggio. However, one would expect it show up on sheet music as a lined up chord group of notes. If you're using an audio-to-MIDI application to take an audio file to a MIDI file, this type of timing issue is typically pretty pronounced. I know because I've tried nearly all of them out

You can check to see if these notes in the original MIDI file are actually lined up perfectly or not by viewing the Piano Roll. The Piano Roll view shows you exactly what the underlying MIDI file looks like in terms of (1) attack (the beginning of each note) and the duration (the length of each note). When Composer transcribes a file into notation, it's trying to give you the best notational representation of the underlying MIDI performance, so that you can get readable sheet music.

If you want to hear all such notes together as they're notated, in Composer, you can do the following (without having to re-enter all the notes ):
1. Open your file in Composer.
2. Click on the "Piano roll" tab.
3. In the Piano Roll palette, click the "Edit as-performed" button (third from the left.)
4. In the Region menu, click "Select all".
5. Now in the Region menu, click "Convert region to selection of notes"
6. Now you can use one of the "Snap" buttons (the last three on the detail palette) to make all the notes "snap" to their (a) notated attack (where they start) (b) notated duration (length of the note value, eg. quarter note) or (c) both.
Does this address the issue that you're seeing? If not, please do attach a file so I can take a look at exactly what you're seeing and provide a little better analysis to the exact problem.

Thanks!
Sherry
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  #7  
Old 02-11-2010, 02:45 PM
malmeida_pt2001
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Default Re: Imported Midi In Wrong Key With Wrong Note Timing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherry C View Post
Hi,

...

If you want to hear all such notes together as they're notated, in Composer, you can do the following (without having to re-enter all the notes ):
1. Open your file in Composer.
2. Click on the "Piano roll" tab.
3. In the Piano Roll palette, click the "Edit as-performed" button (third from the left.)
4. In the Region menu, click "Select all".
5. Now in the Region menu, click "Convert region to selection of notes"
6. Now you can use one of the "Snap" buttons (the last three on the detail palette) to make all the notes "snap" to their (a) notated attack (where they start) (b) notated duration (length of the note value, eg. quarter note) or (c) both.
Does this address the issue that you're seeing? If not, please do attach a file so I can take a look at exactly what you're seeing and provide a little better analysis to the exact problem.

Thanks!
Sherry
Tested and meets my expectation for the current issue.
Many thanks.
Mario
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