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Chord names Report and discuss chord names feature

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  #1  
Old 09-25-2017, 08:36 PM
martin martin is offline
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Default Chords over 2 octaves

I thought to test the chord recognition of composer by playing the chords of C Major over two octaves. The result is shown. All works OK in the first octave but then things go wrong in the second octave (should be Dm Em F and G as in the first octave. Strange behaviour!!
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File Type: jpg Composer Chord recognition 1.jpg (95.3 KB, 14 views)
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  #2  
Old 09-26-2017, 04:00 PM
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Sherry C Sherry C is offline
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Default Re: Chords over 2 octaves

Hi Martin,

I'm not seeing this problem here. I'm using beta 3.0.6-103, and I did the following:
  1. Entered the quarter note chords by entering one set of chord notes, then copy/pasting them into the rest of the positions.
  2. Adjusted note pitches by selecting a chord, then using P + Up arrow key to position the bass note, then clicked the "natural" key in the palette to make the notes all properly naturals.
  3. Ran the Chordname Wizard (Text/Chord Names/Analyze and Display...) with the "Classical" style and selected Right Hand piano.
I got the following:


Martin_octave_chordnames.jpg


which all looks correct for chord names.


Here is the file I made for this: ChordWizard_octaves_testing.not


What steps did you take to get the file and results that you did? And can you please post a copy of the file that gives these results?


Thanks!
Sherry
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:33 PM
martin martin is offline
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Cool Re: Chords over 2 octaves

Thanks Sherry.
That's very interesting. I am surprised that the method of entering notes has such an effect on the interpretation of chords names. Please may I ask you to enter them as I did to get the missing chord names.

Start a new blank stave.
Enter step time record and choose quarter notes. Place the cursor over bar 1 beat 1. Now enter all the triads from your keyboard C Dm Em F G Am Bdim C and continue up another octave. Dont use cut and paste. Now transcribe the chord names.

Strangely enough, I did this myself before replying to your last post and got a different set of missing chord names than those showing in my previous screenshot.

Martin
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:41 PM
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Sherry C Sherry C is offline
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Default Re: Chords over 2 octaves

Hi Martin,

Please post a copy of the file that is showing the problem - that will help us better assess the issue.
The method of note entry should not affect the chord names, so we'd want to see if there is something "under the covers" that is happening.

Thanks,
Sherry
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:47 PM
martin martin is offline
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Default Re: Chords over 2 octaves

I think it will be for the best to forget this problem for now please. I just tried several times to reproduce my original screenshot and could not. Composer transcribed the chords OK. Just on the odd occasion when I use step time record and play the chords in too quickly I might see a missing chord name. I will be happy to get back to this problem if and when I get more reproducible evidence as time goes by.
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:59 PM
martin martin is offline
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Default Re: Chords over 2 octaves

Just reproduced the error so I thought you might like to see it in the attachment. I entered the chords using step time record.
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File Type: not Missing chord names.not (9.7 KB, 4 views)
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  #7  
Old 09-26-2017, 09:34 PM
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Sherry C Sherry C is offline
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Default Re: Chords over 2 octaves

Hi Martin,

Thanks - this may prove quite helpful. There is indeed something different about the notes between the two files, which is one reason it's so important for us to know as much detail about a situation as possible.

If you open both your file and my file, and use the Format/Display pitch names in noteheads, you'll see a difference. In my file, there are no accidental symbols that show up. In yours, though, some naturals show up (the default setting for the "show pitch names" is to also show accidentals that don't normally display.)

Task2959-sm.jpg

This tells me that there is indeed something "under the covers" that is different between the files.

So, my next question is, does your keyboard have any kind of automatic transposition feature, and was that feature "on" when you did the step-time recording? If it has such a feature, and it was on when you recorded this file, please try turning it off and then record the same notes. Or if not, please let us know that, too.

Thanks for your help here!
Sherry
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Last edited by Sherry C; 09-26-2017 at 09:40 PM. Reason: add screenshot
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:19 PM
martin martin is offline
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Default Re: Chords over 2 octaves

My keyboard is pretty basic so it has no transposition facilities.

I thought to export a midi file of my previous .not file and look at an event list.
The results shown in the attachment are a bit odd. For example where do the Key Aftertouch messages come from. I do not have Key Aft ability on my keyboard. And why are there repeated notes at the beginning.?? Something strange going on.

Martin
ps
I just produced an event list from your .not file where you show accurate chord names. I got the same result (ie with key aftertouch etc). So although this is unexpected, it is nothing to do with the chord name transcription evidently.
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File Type: jpg event list.jpg (87.7 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by martin; 09-26-2017 at 11:04 PM.
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  #9  
Old 09-27-2017, 06:37 AM
Reinhold H. Reinhold H. is offline
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Default Re: Chords over 2 octaves

Hi Martin,

Not sure what MIDI event tool you use. From my perspective (except the missing chord) the Midi event list looks clean and OK. Please see the screen shot.

Reinhold
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File Type: png Missing chord names.png (16.8 KB, 8 views)
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  #10  
Old 09-27-2017, 08:43 AM
martin martin is offline
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Default Re: Chords over 2 octaves

I use Cakewalk Sonar for the event list. It was just a thought I had that it might show up something to help with the missing chord problem.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:33 AM
Reinhold H. Reinhold H. is offline
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Default Re: Chords over 2 octaves

Thx. In order to double-check the event flow, I recommend to see what the MIDI-OX tools says. Btw. a great tool. Please find the tool here.
Could be that when recording not all MIDI events are captured. Anyway, I think that such a case is not related to chord recognition.

Reinhold
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:00 PM
martin martin is offline
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Default Re: Chords over 2 octaves

Thanks for the tip about midiox. Ill definitely give it a try.

I've uploaded another file to show missing and incorrect chords. Clearly the first F and G are missing and the the third chord G7 is incorrect. Sherry mentioned earlier a point about accidentals when selecting the "note names in note heads" option. There are none in this example as you can see.
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File Type: not Missing chord names.not (6.0 KB, 0 views)
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