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-   -   Chords over 2 octaves (http://www.notation.com/vb-forum/showthread.php?t=34172)

martin 09-25-2017 08:36 PM

Chords over 2 octaves
 
1 Attachment(s)
I thought to test the chord recognition of composer by playing the chords of C Major over two octaves. The result is shown. All works OK in the first octave but then things go wrong in the second octave (should be Dm Em F and G as in the first octave. Strange behaviour!!

Sherry C 09-26-2017 04:00 PM

Re: Chords over 2 octaves
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hi Martin,

I'm not seeing this problem here. I'm using beta 3.0.6-103, and I did the following:
  1. Entered the quarter note chords by entering one set of chord notes, then copy/pasting them into the rest of the positions.
  2. Adjusted note pitches by selecting a chord, then using P + Up arrow key to position the bass note, then clicked the "natural" key in the palette to make the notes all properly naturals.
  3. Ran the Chordname Wizard (Text/Chord Names/Analyze and Display...) with the "Classical" style and selected Right Hand piano.
I got the following:


Attachment 1674


which all looks correct for chord names.


Here is the file I made for this: Attachment 1673


What steps did you take to get the file and results that you did? And can you please post a copy of the file that gives these results?


Thanks!
Sherry

martin 09-26-2017 08:33 PM

Re: Chords over 2 octaves
 
Thanks Sherry.
That's very interesting. I am surprised that the method of entering notes has such an effect on the interpretation of chords names. Please may I ask you to enter them as I did to get the missing chord names.

Start a new blank stave.
Enter step time record and choose quarter notes. Place the cursor over bar 1 beat 1. Now enter all the triads from your keyboard C Dm Em F G Am Bdim C and continue up another octave. Dont use cut and paste. Now transcribe the chord names.

Strangely enough, I did this myself before replying to your last post and got a different set of missing chord names than those showing in my previous screenshot.

Martin

Sherry C 09-26-2017 08:41 PM

Re: Chords over 2 octaves
 
Hi Martin,

Please post a copy of the file that is showing the problem - that will help us better assess the issue.
The method of note entry should not affect the chord names, so we'd want to see if there is something "under the covers" that is happening.

Thanks,
Sherry

martin 09-26-2017 08:47 PM

Re: Chords over 2 octaves
 
I think it will be for the best to forget this problem for now please. I just tried several times to reproduce my original screenshot and could not. Composer transcribed the chords OK. Just on the odd occasion when I use step time record and play the chords in too quickly I might see a missing chord name. I will be happy to get back to this problem if and when I get more reproducible evidence as time goes by.:)

martin 09-26-2017 08:59 PM

Re: Chords over 2 octaves
 
1 Attachment(s)
Just reproduced the error so I thought you might like to see it in the attachment. I entered the chords using step time record.

Sherry C 09-26-2017 09:34 PM

Re: Chords over 2 octaves
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi Martin,

Thanks - this may prove quite helpful. There is indeed something different about the notes between the two files, which is one reason it's so important for us to know as much detail about a situation as possible.

If you open both your file and my file, and use the Format/Display pitch names in noteheads, you'll see a difference. In my file, there are no accidental symbols that show up. In yours, though, some naturals show up (the default setting for the "show pitch names" is to also show accidentals that don't normally display.)

Attachment 1676

This tells me that there is indeed something "under the covers" that is different between the files.

So, my next question is, does your keyboard have any kind of automatic transposition feature, and was that feature "on" when you did the step-time recording? If it has such a feature, and it was on when you recorded this file, please try turning it off and then record the same notes. Or if not, please let us know that, too.

Thanks for your help here!
Sherry

martin 09-26-2017 10:19 PM

Re: Chords over 2 octaves
 
1 Attachment(s)
My keyboard is pretty basic so it has no transposition facilities.

I thought to export a midi file of my previous .not file and look at an event list.
The results shown in the attachment are a bit odd. For example where do the Key Aftertouch messages come from. I do not have Key Aft ability on my keyboard. And why are there repeated notes at the beginning.?? Something strange going on.

Martin:)
ps
I just produced an event list from your .not file where you show accurate chord names. I got the same result (ie with key aftertouch etc). So although this is unexpected, it is nothing to do with the chord name transcription evidently.

Reinhold H. 09-27-2017 06:37 AM

Re: Chords over 2 octaves
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi Martin,

Not sure what MIDI event tool you use. From my perspective (except the missing chord) the Midi event list looks clean and OK. Please see the screen shot.

Reinhold

martin 09-27-2017 08:43 AM

Re: Chords over 2 octaves
 
I use Cakewalk Sonar for the event list. It was just a thought I had that it might show up something to help with the missing chord problem. :)

Reinhold H. 09-27-2017 09:33 AM

Re: Chords over 2 octaves
 
Thx. In order to double-check the event flow, I recommend to see what the MIDI-OX tools says. Btw. a great tool. Please find the tool here.
Could be that when recording not all MIDI events are captured. Anyway, I think that such a case is not related to chord recognition.

Reinhold

martin 09-27-2017 07:00 PM

Re: Chords over 2 octaves
 
1 Attachment(s)
Thanks for the tip about midiox. Ill definitely give it a try.

I've uploaded another file to show missing and incorrect chords. Clearly the first F and G are missing and the the third chord G7 is incorrect. Sherry mentioned earlier a point about accidentals when selecting the "note names in note heads" option. There are none in this example as you can see.


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