Meter refuses to be hidden
 

Hello,

Tearing my hair out over this...

I have created a final measure (3/4) in this tune to make up for the upbeat measure (1/4). I have following the user guide to step 7 where I have split the measure and Shift-M is then used to bring up the Change Meter palette. The meter refuses to be hidden despite checking the box to hide it. See included file.

Also Shift-M took ages to work - I had just about given up when after ~5 minutes the window finally popped up when clicking on the measure again... weird. Didn't work via the icons either. Does the measure have to be selected as a region first or is there something I'm doing wrong?

Finally, why does step 6 require start and end repeats? Are these necessary for upbeat measures to work? What if the tune does not have repeats?

Hope you can help.

Kind regards,
Iain

Re: Meter refuses to be hidden
 

Howdy Ian,

Oh dear... hope I'm not too late in replying. Your barber would be very upset with me ;)

There's a usability issue lurking here. When you click on the meter to bring up the "Change Meter" box, there is a "Split Measure" section in the middle, which check box should be empty in this situation. If you uncheck that box, and check the "Hide" box at the top, then the meter will indeed hide properly. I'll write this up for improvement. Sorry for the problem.

I did not run into this problem of the Shift-M taking a long time to produce the Meter palette. But I did this on first opening your file. Perhaps there was something else going on in the background? (eg. a file autosave of this or another song you were working on at the same time?)

Sorry - I'm lost here. Step 6 of what procedure?

ttfn,
Sherry

Re: Meter refuses to be hidden
 

He should be ok as I've still got a good supply (at the moment). :D

Thanks Sherry. Well, I tried unchecking both boxes and all that happens is the 3/4 time signature changes to blue (highlighted). It just won't disappear. Strange... something set elseware that shouldn't be.

Yes, that may have been it. It's fine now. Thanks.

I should have been clearer with this, sorry. It's step 6 in the User Guide under "Creating an upbeat measure".

Cheers and thanks Sherry for your (as always) fast response.
Iain

Re: Meter refuses to be hidden
 

Curiouser and curiouser...

I tried adding more measures to make a total of 18 and voila, the meter in measure 9 now hides. But... it has transferred the problem to the last measure where the meter now refuses to hide. Not only that, the last measure is now m16! What happened to the other two??

I have included the file where I have added the extra measures, made them 4/4 from m10 onwards, thereby allowing m9 meter to become hideable. The meter in the last measure (16??) has now become unhideable.

Getting there tho (I think).

Hope to hear soon.
Best regards,
Iain

Re: Meter refuses to be hidden
 

What a nightmare...

Now I've added measures for Part B I cannot split them! The barline cursor moves along but nothing happens when I click the mouse but ok in Part A. :confused:

The previously mentioned issued have not been resolved either.

Sad to say, but I think it's time to try another program for this tune and maybe any new ones. Not happy. :mad:

Could someone possibly have a look at this file for me?

Cheers,
Iain

Re: Meter refuses to be hidden
 

Hi Iain,

Does this file also cover the previous (7/13) post problem? My apologies for missing that one.

I'll take a look at it.

ttfn,
Sherry

Re: Meter refuses to be hidden
 

Howdy Iain,

I'll have to show you a picture of me from this past Monday as part of some drama I was doing. 'Tis an apt description ;)

(edit: inserted picture)Attachment 395

This is a usability issue here for splitting such measures, and I've written up a recommendation for fixing it (task 2348).

The measures in section B only are "divided" with whole rests. In order to split the measure, Composer needs to know where you want to split it (beat 1? beat 2.5?) and to know that, the rests would need to be split into smaller divisions in the empty measure. (When you add new measures, Composer tries to keep the score as clean as possible, so it puts a whole rest into a 4/4 measure.) I've recommended that if a user tries to split a measure that is not somehow already "sectioned" by rests or notes, that Composer should ask the user how they want to split up the measure.

With the above explanation of the current situation in mind, you can either add a new measure with a different meter right up front, or change the meter of an existing measure a couple of different ways.

To split an existing measure:

1.In the Notes and Rests palette click on a smaller duration rest
2. click in the measure you want to split. The rests will now divide the measure into smaller divisions that you can use as the split mark when splitting the measure.
3. Now use the Split Measure feature.

For the example of changing the meter of measure 10 in your file to 1/4 and having 11 through the end at 4/4 (in working on this I found another bug now task 2349, but these steps work)

1. Change the meter of an existing empty measure by clicking the Staff Symbols tab, then the Meter button.
2. Click on the measure you want to change the meter for.
3. In the dialog, select the meter you want for that measure (eg. 1/4)
4. and if you want to "Hide" it or not (I checked "Hide")
5. Click "Ok." (I see here a display problem that the 1/4 meter shows up in a different measure - you can ignore that for now, because it gets fixed in the next step, but I'm writing that up for fixing.)
6. Now click in measure 11, and change the meter to 4/4. "Hide" will still be checked in the dialog.
7. Click "Ok."

With the file that I have (Cooley's Reel (Part B won't Split).not) I see 18 measures, and no meters showing except at the very beginning of the piece. Was there perhaps an intermediate stage between the first file and the second file that shows the problem? (I only see two files that have been uploaded.)

I tried the following, in an attempt to reproduce the problem you're seeing:

1. Opened Cooley's Reel.not (first attachment)
2. See that a 4/4 meter shows for measure 6, so double-click it and select "Hide", no check in the "Split measure" option, to hide it.
3. See that the 3/4 meter shows for measure 9, so double-click it and select "Hide", no check in the "Split measure" option, to hide it.
4. Use Measure -> Insert (add) measures
5. Options: Add at end of score, 9 measures, 4/4 meter. Click OK.
6. See 18 measures in the score, and that meter 4/4 shows in the newly added measure 10 (because the previous measure was 3/4).
7. Double-click 4/4 meter in measure 10, and select to "Hide" it, and "split measure" option is unchecked.
8. Click "Ok" and now have an 18 measure piece with only the meter showing at measure 1.

I'm apparently missing something to make the bug show up. Given my steps above, what else should I do to make the problem show up?
The only other option that I can think of that might make a difference is that I'm accepting the default beaming patterns that show up in the meter dialog. Please let me know if I should change those, or add some other step, to force the bug out into the open.

Thanks!
Sherry

Re: Meter refuses to be hidden
 

p.s. I see that I forgot to mention adding in a measure with a different meter.

1. Measures -> Insert (add) measures
2. Click "Insert measure at measure number __" and enter the measure number where you want to insert the new measure.
3. Enter the number of measures you want to insert.
4. Select the meter of the new measure(s).
5. Click "Ok".
6. Double-click the meter to hide it if needed.

ttfn,
Sherry

Re: Meter refuses to be hidden
 

Yikes, I see what you mean! Gunpowder Plot gone wrong? :eek:

Thanks for your replies, Sherry. Will be off air for a few days.
I'll work on your suggestions and get back soon.

Cheers,
Iain

Re: Meter refuses to be hidden
 

Howdy Iain,

Bystander standing too close during the confrontation between Elijah and the prophets on Mt. Carmel :)

ttfn,
Sherry

Re: Meter refuses to be hidden
 

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this thread but I have now abandoned Cooley's Reel and have had not major problems with a new tune I am doing.

One thing I did discover though: that last measure refusing to be hidden thing showed up again in the new tune. Highlighting this measure and using the change meter dialog (Hide meter selected) still left the time signature there - in blue.

However... Using region select for all but the upbeat measure (anacrusis) and then using the same change meter dialog (Hide meter selected), it worked!

So... not sure why, but problem solved.

Thanks again Sherry for your help.