Howdy Fred, Just a sidenote
 

Howdy Fred,

Just a sidenote on the usage of two tracks for bass: you mentioned above that one was acoustic bass, and one was fretless bass. If the fretless was "electric fretless", it gives quite a different sort of sound than any other type of bass. It's called "mwah" in bass circles, and is one of many types of sound in the "sonic palette" of electric bass players. If you're playing an instrument "live", it's not a real hard task to get many different sounds out of the bass with just your hands, but obviously you don't quite have that luxury in the midi world, and hence the two separate tracks for two different bass sounds. Also, some songs will use the acoustic bass to lay down a low-end foundation, and have the fretless playing a little higher pitch-wise (more midrange) for added interest.

A friend of mine asked me to record some bass tracks for him on a CD he was working on. He had one song track at the end of his list, that had no title, and only a single guitar track on it. So I just noodled around a bit with my fretless around his chord changes, figuring I could just erase it if he didn't like it. He loved it - and asked me to record some more bass. The song ended up having three bass tracks, one guitar, and vocal - that was all http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif Oh, the power of us low-lifes ;)

Yes, Composer makes it more addictive, because of all the different instruments you can add!

ttfn,
Sherry

Thank you Sherry, Yeah, I pla
 

Thank you Sherry,
Yeah, I played the song with just one bass track and the sound wasn't nearly as good. Ain't it nice to learn something new everyday? Now all I'm waiting for is someone to invent a midi saxaphone, then I won't have to edit anything. By they way, guess what I found yesterday? The first song I ever wrote when I was 15 in high school. It's called "Saxaphone Rock". It's not very good, but it is pretty funny. Maybe I could talk you into and arranging it with your guitar and we could have some silly fun. It's just a melody line with words, but maybe you or I could add some chords ( It's old time rock, 3 chords and a cloud of dust) and we could collaborate on it. Think about it. Fred

Howdy Fred, Re. the midi sa
 

Howdy Fred,

Re. the midi saxophone - it's here http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/.../base_id/35204 Laid out just like a sax. You'd plug it in to your computer just like you do your keyboard. It's a little pricey (for my blood, anyway) at about $600, but as I understand it, that's far less than you'd pay for a good acoustic sax.

There are also some midi synths/controllers that you can hook up to a guitar, but that's out of my budget for the next 20 years (gotta get four kids raised and all that ;) ) Then I wouldn't have to edit so much http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

And re. the collaboration for your tune, that could be a scream http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif (and that's good ;) ). Do you have the melody line entered into Composer? If so, maybe you could post it in the "Share Your Music" section, and we could start the collaboration.

Speaking of such, I still need to trim my timpani in Mark's piece. I've been quite busy the last few days trying to tie up some things with my "aunts and uncles" project, as one of my aunts is not doing well right now, and things are kind of hectic with all of the other ones. However, I intend to do some trimming, with tonight being my goal.

ttfn,
Sherry

Hi Sherry, Wow! Somebody'
 

Hi Sherry,
Wow! Somebody's always inventing something before you have shot. $600, huh? That's what I paid for my saxaphone in 1956 and sold it for the same price in 1994 after it had been sitting in the case for 18 years.
Let me fill you in on something. Getting the 4 kids raised doesn't help much. I raised my 4, then 14 foster kids and 2 grand kids and I was just as broke when all that was over. I think you gotta hit the number or something.
No, I don't have the tune in Composer, yet. I'll have to either do it manually or try it on the keyboard. It may take a little while. My wife has been in Baltimore for a week and is coming home today and I am just about exhausted. I think I could sleep for a month. Anyway, it could turn out to be a riot. I still can't believe I wrote that stuff, but I do remember doing it so I can't blame it on someone else. Let you know when I get it ready. Fred

Howdy Fred, You said: &#
 

Howdy Fred,

You said:

> Somebody's always inventing something before you have shot.

I've seen or heard of these other midi instruments too (so far): harp, accordion, bagpipe(!), bass, organ, and drum pads (essentially e-drums). I'd love to have a midi whistle - that could save me a lot of time entering melody lines!

You also said:
> I raised my 4, then 14 foster kids and 2 grand kids

Bless you, Fred! But you have a lot more than money could ever buy you http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif So do I - I am blessed http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

The good thing about not having the other midi instruments, and having my kids keeping me from spending too much (not to mention how much fun they are in and of themselves) is the fact that my keyboard skills are ever-so-slowly getting a bit better http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif Keyboard controllers are by far the least expensive and most prolific midi instrument around.

ttfn,
Sherry

Howdy, Speaking of using yo
 

Howdy,

Speaking of using your instrument of choice for "mimicking" other instruments, there's a fellow named Phil Keaggy who is a guitarist supreme. Nowadays he does a lot of his own accompaniment using a MIDI hookup on his guitar and then using various instrument sounds much like what you mentioned above for the violinist. He did a Christmas album a few years back which was done solely via this method. He had all sorts of styles and articulations nailed down solid - it was absolutely incredible.

And it is very nice to listen to http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

OK, Sherry, You asked for it!
 

OK, Sherry, You asked for it! Me and my big mouth.... I don't know if
I'll ever live this down, but I'm too old to care. You have to
understand it was 1954 and I was an "egotistical prima donna" (I say
that because I believed myself to be the sax player in the song. I
know it's bad, but I thought it was pretty cool at the time. (you had
to be there). Anyway, I hope you are up for a good laugh. You're right
it could turn out to be a scream! OK, I stalled long enough, here it
is! OH, P.S. it's written a little stiff, but you'll get the idea of
the phrasing. Fred <center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons...hment_icon.gifSaxophone Rock
Saxophone Rock.not (39.8 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Howdy Fred, What a hoot! S
 

Howdy Fred,

What a hoot! So what kind of chord progression do you have in mind? And what kinds of "stuff" do you have going through your head when you play it (or hum it or whatever)? I know you said "rock", but that can encompass a lot (believe it or not Mark ;) ) in the variations of style. Are we talking Bill Haley and the Comets, or Chubby Checker, or the Rolling Stones, or what? And I'm just dying to hear the "saxophone break" http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

If you don't feel as comfortable at the keyboard with getting things in "right", you might try what I do (and I'm gosh-awful at the keyboard). You have to be able to block out what you hear from the keyboard pitch-wise, and just go with the rhythms for my method, but what I do is to listen to the metronome and then sing in my head and bang out the rhythm on the keyboard. I miss a lot of notes (I am sloooowly getting better), but it's much easier for me to go back and fix the pitches of the notes than it is to try and correct the rhythms. So I then go back and correct the pitches, and I usually can get a pretty decent sounding track with that method. YMMV*

The reason that I'm asking about what you're hearing, is that I can hear this - with a slightly different feel in the melody line - as easily being a Jerry Lee Lewis style of song. It'd fit his personality, too, except it'd be a piano player then http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

*Your Mileage May Vary

Hi Sherry, Are you still laugh
 

Hi Sherry, Are you still laughing? Funny you should mention Jerry Lee Lewis. He sat in with my band at a place called Unity Hall in Baltimore at about that time. He sat in on guitar, but he could only play guitar in the key of C, so he used a clamp on the frets. If I remember, he may have played everthing on the piano in C, too. I wasn't up too much on chord progression at that time, I was classical clarinetist up until then and all I could do was read. When I started playing sax, I just played and let the guitar player worry about the chords. I did the notation in C, but I believe it should be in F. Probably back and forth between F7 and G7 ( maybe with a Bb7 thrown in for good measure). What's going on in my head? I think I hear you doing a vocal and playing guitar. The sax break is long gone. I don't think I could do it on the keyboard. ( I can't make it growl ). heh heh! Anyway, do whatever you want with it. Whatever you do will be a major improvement. Thanks for the tip on getting the meter right and editing the notes afterward. I'll also have to start using the metronome or put in the rhythm first. Fred

Hi Sherry, Mark finally woke
 

Hi Sherry,
Mark finally woke me up to the fact I need to use the metronome when recording, so here is the more intended phrasing for sax rock. I did the entry manually in the song file and it came out stiff. This is closer to how I would read the original manuscript. Sorry! Fred<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons...hment_icon.gifPhrasing
Sax Rock Phrasing.not (14.3 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Howdy Fred, This is actuall
 

Howdy Fred,

This is actually much more like what I hear in my head http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif I've been fiddling around with some drum stuff to get the "groove", and we'll see what goes from there. This is a fun little tune - thanks for sharing it with us, and inviting us to work on it. More later - right now I have to go out and enjoy some sunshine http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

I am getting up the nerve to p
 

I am getting up the nerve to post my question. I am notating my daughter's song, and I'm stuck. It has verse 1, then chorus, then verse 2 (which is a little different then v1, so it has to be noted), then same chorus, then ending. I have successfully noted v1, chorus, v2, repeat to chorus, but I can't get from the chorus to the ending. It plays v2 again. I have noted the .not file by playing 'by ear' from the keyboard to the computer in Fake style. Thank you for your help! Gracie <center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons...hment_icon.gifKayle's Song
There At The Cross Eternal Life_Fake.not (48.1 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Howdy Fred, I just download
 

Howdy Fred,

I just downloaded a mess of saxophone soundfonts, and I'll give 'em a run through sometime soon. Maybe I'll try and make a "comparison" song and post it on my Sound Click page so you can hear what the possibilities are the cheap route http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Meanwhile, maybe we should move the song to it's own new thread in the "Share your music" section under "Rock and Roooooollllllll" http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

Hello Gracie, Did you daugh
 

Hello Gracie,

Did you daughter write this song? It's nicely written.

You can use the Score / Repeat Instructions command to control how Composer plays back repeats, endings, choruses, etc.

I noticed that the notes tend to lag behind the beat by a 16th or 8th note. This might have happend because the metronome was incorrectly set to a MIDI device that has a lag. The most common example of a MIDI device with a lag is the Microsoft GS Wavetable Softsynth. Double-click the metronome button to assign the metronome to a different MIDI device, or to the computer speaker beep sound.

It's also possible that your performance actually did lag behind the metronome. You might have to practice recording a few times to get the hang of playing closer to the metronome.

There are some different ways that you can fix the notes to align on beats, but the techniques are somewhat advanced. In the upcoming Composer version 1.1, there will probably be some new options to make this task easier.

Good luck finishing the piece. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have more how-to questions. And share the piece with us when you're done. Start a new thread somewhere under Notation Software Support Forum » Share Your Music, rather than in this Fill'er Up thread, which is getting too long for forum readers to follow.

Cheers
-- Mark

Mark: You are correct. The m
 

Mark: You are correct. The midi device was set to Microsoft GS Wavetable Softsynth. I will change it. Thank you, and yes, my daughter did write the song, but it is not on sheet music. I learned to play it on the keyboard, and we never got it noted. This is one of my goals to get all of the music we have written in sheet music. We have some really pretty songs, but none of us know anything about Theory. We just have a God given talent and love for music. So I am really excited about Midinotate Composer. I have a big learning curve and get stuck on basics, but I hope to learn quickly. Sherry has helped me a lot, and she has encouraged me to post on the forum. This forum is a real blessing! I purchased the software today, so I am one of the group now. Gracie

Hi Gracie, Welcome to the grou
 

Hi Gracie, Welcome to the group! As Mark said, your daughter's song is nicely written. Obviously, you are not going to have any problems getting all your songs notated. I am in the "basics" stages myself, but you will find the help you get in this forum is priceless and it won't take long at all. Nice to have you aboard. Fred Winterling

Hi Mark & Sherry: I'v
 

Hi Mark &amp; Sherry:
I've been messing with this piece for a while. Maybe others on the forum can offer suggestions.
I am aware that some sections are un-playable without three hands, and I'll work on those areas. The harmonies, voicing and syncopation keeps me awake at night (days too, sometimes), however, the piece seems a bit manic in places and I've lived with it too long to remain objective. It seems to have gotten away from me.
Ideas? Suggestions?
Thanks, Larry
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons...hment_icon.gifA classic-ish piano piece. It's name says it all.
Stupidipity 17.not (318.6 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Hi Larry, Very nice!! I don
 

Hi Larry,

Very nice!! I don't know if I am qualified to offer you any suggestions. You are a far more skillful artist than I. But, I will tell you what I hear and perhaps offer a way for you to be able to sleep a little better. I don't believe the piece has gotten away from you. What I feel is that you actually have two pieces here. So I have two thoughts. I would consider separating them at measure #87 ( and if you feel that would make them too short, you could possibly expand on both of them separately) or another idea would be to make the last half the piece the middle. Maybe bring the first half back in at the end and finish it with that theme ....or vice versa. Anyway, I like your style. Do you play jazz? It sounds like you could be the second coming of Thelonious Monk! Keep up the good work!
Fred Winterling

Hi Fred: Hey, thanks for the
 

Hi Fred:
Hey, thanks for the comments. I'm a hack guitar player with tunes running in
my head but no real training to get them out. I, like Sherry, am a church
musician and often re-arrange our praise songs using music software with
Composer as the final stages (the more I dig into Composer the more useful
it becomes, and with Mark responsive to increasing its capabilities I can
give up some stages I do in other programs). However, your suggestion to
segment the parts into an A B A set sounds like something to try on this
piece.

The Monk! - You throw that kind of praise too easily ;^> but how kind.
Thanks.
Yes, I do play at jazz, and listen to it a great deal. I have over a
thousand (vinyl) disks collected and still listen to the early ones as well
as the recent CDs.

I'll work at the piece as I can, and give the forum updates if desired. If
others have any input, I'll incorporate them if they are workable.
Thanks again,
Larry

Hello Fred: I have altered th
 

Hello Fred:
I have altered the file at measure #177, let me know what you think.
I have transitioned the sections rather than section them.
Make a great day,
Larry
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons...hment_icon.gifStupidipity 18
Stupidipity 18.not (337.2 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Hi Larry, The transition at
 

Hi Larry,

The transition at measure 177 works. It's a much simpler way to approach it than my suggestion. Good job! The ending fits better, too. BTW, are you sleeping now? I thought I heard someone snoring.

Ah, The Monk! I once sat in with him one of the after hours "dives" on 8th Avenue in NYC. I was on the road in the late 1950's with a Top 40/ Variety band playing at a club in Paterson,NJ. My trumpet player, drummer and I used to go there after our gig to listen or to sit in when asked. We were sitting in one night when in walked The Monk and Yusef Latief. What a blast! A little later two tenor sax men from Basie's band (Frank West and Frank Foster) also popped in to sit in. Being a tenor man also, I thought that would be a good time for me to take a break.
Those were the days.
Best,
Fred

Hi Fred: Yeah! That would hav
 

Hi Fred:
Yeah! That would have been a real pants wetter siding with a legend.
How curious... I lived in Paterson NJ in the early 40's (we're telling our ages I fear) a few blocks from where Lou Costello lived.
I thank you for your feedback, and I had a great nap this afternoon.
I replayed the tune and was still uneasy with some syncopations that felt awkward. I'll look another day, but thanks. It's nice to connect with someone after facing this screen plastered with music and notes to myself and..., etc.

Hi Larry, I like the piece.
 

Hi Larry,

I like the piece. It seems to have an internal logic, and I don't know as I'd want to change very much. My first impression was that I was hearing a re-incarnation of Bach in a body with Andre the Giant's hands. Subsequent listenings have done little to change the first impression.

There are a few places, such as measures 153-155, where there is a reach that most people couldn't make, but in many of them switching a note from one hand to the other and/or using the sustaining pedal would obviate the necessity of a third hand. But in a place or two (the 3rd and 4th beats of measure 153) something will have to give by an octave, I suppose, as in the F#3 and E3 moving up and some of the RH notes becoming LH notes. But for the most part, anyone who can comfortably reach a 10th could play it, if he/she has the reach and is quite accomplished.

I started by saying I wouldn't want to change much, but I wonder if making the piece for piano plus an instrument, such as a clarinet, would disrupt its internal integrity. Not a suggestion; just wondering.

all best,
mgj

Hi mgj: Thanks for your inter
 

Hi mgj:
Thanks for your interest and suggestions. First 'The Monk' and then 'Bach', yowee! (Andre - didn't he play with Coletrane?, just kiddin' ;^>)
I did revise the measures you suggested, then further examined the rest of the piece with the same eye and made other changes as well.
I guess I should be more aware of the instrument (and performer)I'm writing for since the note spans can be done on my guitar easier than a pianist could on a piano.
I'm never sure of the meter or key when I do this kind of thing, just change the key when I get too many # or b's to one that has fewer and guess at the meter by the way the notes fall. That's why it's named what I named it.
The feedback you and Fred have given sure have helped, and I appreciate all the help I can get.
Larry
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons...hment_icon.gifStupidipity #19
Stupidipity 19.not (337.2 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Hi Larry, So you lived in Pat
 

Hi Larry,
So you lived in Paterson? The memories I have of that city will be etched in my mind for the rest of my life. For instance... Our agent messed up our road dates and we found ourselves out of work for 3 weeks after our gig in Paterson. We did not want to tell our wives because they would have made us come home. So we agreed on a scheme. We had very little money and we decided to stay in Paterson and pool our money so we could survive. We bought a 5 gallon carton of cheap wine and, a greasy spoon next to the hotel advertised "Hot Texas Wieners" for 25 cents. I'll never forget that sign. We ate hot Texas wieners for breakfast and dinner every day for 3 weeks and skipped lunch. The timing was really wonderful because Thanksgiving fell into that period. We could only imagine what we were missing out on at home. We found a bar that was offering free Thanksgiving turkey dinners. So we stood in line at least a block long and waited for our free dinner along with all the homeless people. Can you imagine the feeling standing there in Italian silk suits (with holes in our socks and underwear) and being stared at by everybody in line? We didn't care. We were actually starving. We ate like pigs. It's funny now, but it took us a while to laugh at that predicament.
Anyway, I am having a lot of fun with your piece. I took your 6/8 section and added bass and drums with a jazz waltz beat. It looks like it will be a good while before I can finish it but if I can put it together, I might also add guitar. I'm having trouble with the meter so I might have to double time the the drum part or speed up the tempo. It's not yet coming out like my mind hears it, but I'm persistent. I hope you don't mind my messing up your creation. I'm just having some fun and it's a challenge.Thanks!
Fred

Hi again Fred: Fun is what it
 

Hi again Fred:
Fun is what it's all about. Go ahead with what you'd like to do. It will be interesting to see a different take on the piece.
Larry
PS. I'm getting a picture of the band eating Texas hots every meal. Some of my 'hippy' days were like that.

Hi Larry, This looks pretty
 

Hi Larry,

This looks pretty easily playable--virtuoso down to 4th grade level ;) I miss the fullness of presence in the other version, and I particularly liked the way it ended on the broken E minor chord. On the other hand, the melodic content is more apparent in this version. I find myself thinking it would be great if the versions could both be heard at once, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

Torn between the two versions, I'm not sure what I'd do if it were mine. Probably, I would wind up keeping the other one and modifying only those few places, in one way or another, where the reach required is too much for an ordinary hand. I'd also keep the second. It's not too difficult and it also would make a good study in playing the rhythm of one hand against the other, not to mention the more distinct melodic line.

Unfortunately, I know little about the guitar. I have a piece for flute, strings, and Indian drum and guitar, which is stalled until I find out whether a guitar, or two guitars, or even three, can actually play it. But I can imagine that it would be easier to play widely separated notes in a chord. Your composition, however, seems very right for the piano.

best,
mgj

Hi mgj: When I started in mid
 

Hi mgj:
When I started in midi I didn't ever concern myself with whether a song was playable with a real instrument. I considered the midi process an instrument of its own. I wasn't hampered by normal physical limits of a performer or whether a band had two or three measures of several oboe (how many bands can afford to hire three oboe players for three measures), I just wrote to create the sound I wanted to hear.
You're right! when listening to the two pieces the sonics are much richer in the earlier version. The piece will probably never reach commercial status and I'll not worry about complaints from keyboardists who can't make the stretch. I think now my task is to see if I can achieve the same sonics and still be playable. However, I'm torn, and maybe don't even care if it's playable as long as it's listenable.
I started in music at the age of nine on the accordian (I think I could make the reaches on that keyboard) (I also hated the accordian) and twelve years switched to guitar. I've mostly played by ear and the guitar was self taught. Midi was a way for me to express what I heard in my head rather than write for a real physical instrument with its limits.
The majority of my writing is with the mouse and occasionaly my midi keyboard or midi guitar. I'm sure that many of my pieces are unplayable, but listenable. Even so, I guess I should be concious of whether a piece 'is playable' to learn how. Thus, this thread.
You and Fred have been a real help and what you have challenged me to do was a learning experience. It also helped me to dig into Composer learning more about its capabilities.
That all said... maybe you could put up your piece and let others on the forum offer suggestions as you did for me.
Make a great day...Larry