Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Hi Shelly,

Last week I upgraded from Notation to Composer so that I could use my MIDI controller with the software.

Today I've tried to set up my USB MIDI controller for the first time and Composer crashes every time I get part way. It lets me get so far, such as being able to play the test in the Device setup window, or it might even go as far as the Tap In Delay Button and then the program will crash. Windows itself doesn't crash, just Composer.

I tried unplugging my Sound Blaster Play external USB sound card and using the computers own soundcard but that makes no difference.

The controller is a Midistart Music 25, compter is an HP DV6 Notebook, 3GB Ram, Windows 7.

I wonder if a cup of coffee will help, but I suppose it's best to keep the keyboard dry. :-)

Regards,
Pat

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Hi, Pat:

Rebooting the system completely usually cures any such problems with initial setup.

I assume by now you've rebooted.

David

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Hi Pat,

When Composer crashes, are you getting any error message in the Status Bar? (It's the bottom bar of the Composer window, any message should appear in the lower left.) If you are, please let me know what that is.

If there's no error message, then it may be a driver conflict. What kind of MIDI devices are on the machine, and is there any other software running that might use a MIDI device (eg. instant messaging program, other audio/media players, etc.)?

One way we can isolate some of the issue is to try another MIDI recording application. An easy (and free) one is Red Dot Forever, available for download at http://sourceforge.net/projects/reddot/ It's a very simple MIDI-recording-only application. If you can use that and record something, then we'll know that the issue is more specifically related to Composer than to the general MIDI interactions on your machine.

(I'm glad I wasn't drinking _my_ coffee at the end of your post ;) )

ttfn,
Sherry

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Hi David,

A hard reboot doesn't fix the problem, I'm afraid.

Pat

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Hi Sherry,

Firstly, the controller does work with Red Dot Forever. I've still got the problem with NC crashing, but I think I've narrowed it down a little. Here are the steps I took just now.

Part 1
1. Open NC
2. Controller plays and records ok -I got as far as setting it up as the default device yesterday.
3. Latency is obvious so go into Setup > Configuration > Device > Test.
4. NC crashes.

After a hard reboot I tried again. Actually the computer wouldn't shut down, it just hung in "shutting down" mode so I had to close it using the On/Off button on the computer.

Part 2
I did steps 1 to 3 again and this time for step 4 I went to Calibrate playback delay (latency). Once it got to trying it, NC crashed again but this time I saw the error message in the status bar, which was:

Internal program error: c0000005 address: 57c8a9
The windows alert box said Notation Composer has stopped working.

So, it seems to be something in the configuration file that's causing the crashes.

Part 3
This is a different problem that's not really a problem :)

When opening a new file, an alert box comes up with "Can't open template: C:\...." click OK and the Ensemble options box opens, then another "Can't open..." alert, but every thing opens up ok.

Anyway, I hope you can make some sense of all this. I appreciate your help.
Cheers,
Pat

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Hi Pat,

Thanks for the info. What playback device are you using? I know the MIDI 25 unit is an input-only unit, so there is another device that is acting as the playback device. It may be as simple as needing to make sure the MIDI 25 unit is set as an "In" only device in Composer's Setup/MIDI Device Configuration.

Actually, it might help if you can take a screen shot of your Setup/MIDI Devices configuration for me. Do you know how to take a screen shot? If so, great - you can either post it here or send it to me at the Helpdesk at support@notation.com If you don't know how to do one, please see the step-wise description at our KnowledgBase at http://notation.com/helpdesk/admin/s...kbarticleid=56

Thanks!
Sherry

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Hi Sherry,

The playback device is Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth.

Still the same thing happening, controller plays with latency, crashes NC when tapping the Tap button. I forgot to say before, there is no sound when the notes play for the latency test, only the notation shows up on the staff.

I tried just entering various numbers from 159 up 500 msecs but none seem to change the latency.

I'll send some .jpg files in a separate post, because I forgot to reduce them in size so they won't upload for the moment.

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Here's 3 .jpg files.

In the first and second one it shows the Midistart as MIDI output device. I've since unchecked that, but doesn't affect anything.

Cheers,
Pat

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Hi Pat,

Let's try the following.

In the Setup/MIDI Devices Configuration dialog, please click on Port -> Select Port, and uncheck the MidiStart 25 box on the right hand side. This should put any stop to trying to treat it like an output device (I know you unchecked the "is output device", but this is a double-check for that :) ).

While you're still in the MIDI Device Configuration dialog, go to the properties for the MIDIStart unit.

1. Make sure that under Playback properties none of those boxes is checked.
2. Under Recording properties, make sure both are checked.

The MIDI Start unit is only an input device, and so it should not try to act in any way as an output device.



I've done a bit of research, and it looks like some other sequencing software users have had the same issues with the unit as well. It may be due to it being "compliant" hardware and thus not having specific drivers - this can be a blessing if it all works right, but a bane if it doesn't ;) I do see on the maker's website (http://www.miditech.de/127-Downloads) what looks like a specific driver for the unit. If the steps above don't resolve the issue, it may be worth installing the driver. You can always roll back your machine if the new driver doesn't do the trick either.


For the latency, that is an issue with the GS Wavetable, as it has about a 420 msec (nearly a half-second) latency between when it gets the signal from your keyboard and when it actual gets the sound out. There are other devices that have lower (or zero!) latency. Rather than write that all out here, I'll just refer you to Composer's Help/User Guide, and use the Index to look up "latency". There's a nice explanation, as well as steps for using the "Tap in delay" feature to fix it for playback.



For recording, though, it's probably a good idea to look into using a device that doesn't have latency. Some users like using SynthFont in "MIDI Input On" mode. Using an ASIO audio driver (you can get a free ASIO driver at www.asio4all.com) will eliminate latency for beautiful crisp response :) If you go that route, be sure to use the MIDI Device Configuration/Port/Select Port, and uncheck the GS Wavetable (it interferes with ASIO). There are some discussions here on the forum about other MIDI output devices such as SynthFont, ASIO, using virtual MIDI cables, and the like for better recording and sound. We also have a couple of tutorial videos about the virtual cables and getting going with SynthFont.


Hopefully the suggestions near the front here will alleviate the crashing problem (I've also reported the error message for fixing, so Composer will handle such problems more gracefully in the future :o


Keeping my fingers crossed for you!
Sherry

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Thanks for all the info, Sherry.

I've done the configuration part and that seems to have fixed the crashing problem so far.

I checked out the drivers at Miditech but there isn't one particularly for my controller. I'll email them and ask if any on their list will do.

Downloaded and installed the free ASIO driver but up to now it doesn't work because I can't find any reference for it my sound card's panel. I'll have a look at the other stuff you've suggested over the weekend and get back to you on how it goes.

Cheers,
Pat

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Hi Pat,

Well, hopefully the MIDI Device Configuration settings will eliminate the crashing problem.

For ASIO, it won't show up as a device. It just provides a "fast path" as it were for audio, as opposed to the default Windows MME or Windows Direct Sound. It won't do you any good unless you use a MIDI device other than the default GS Wavetable, as the GS Wavetable interferes with ASIO. You'll need to use something like SynthFont's "MIDI input" feature while using Composer, and setting SynthFont to use the ASIO routing for the audio output.

The "generic" signal path during recording goes like the following:

keyboard -> Composer -> MIDI Device -> audio

When you play your keyboard, the signal goes to Composer, which then (1) records the notes and MIDI controllers (eg. volume, velocity, etc.) and (2) sends the signal on to the MIDI device to create the audible sound by converting the signal to something the audio device (your soundcard) can interpret into sound.

If you want to use SynthFont as the MIDI Device, then you'll need to install a virtual MIDI cable to get the signal from Composer to SynthFont (the MIDI Device). SynthFont can then use the ASIO "route" to get the signal to your audio output (your soundcard).

In that particular case, your signal would look like this:

MIDI Start 25 -(USB cable)-> Composer -(virtual cable)->SynthFont -(ASIO)-> soundcard->speakers/headphones

Hope this helps things make sense :) You can search on this forum to find discussions, specifics, and links for SynthFont and virtual MIDI cables, and in the Tutorial Videos for helps as well.

ttfn,
Sherry

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Hi Sherry,

Over the weekend I've been able to get NC, Loopbe, SoundFont and the free ASIO driver to work together nicely ... ish! Still have to properly understand how to change the sounds in SF but I can work on that.

There are two remaining niggles, one I think is a problem with my computer, the other possibly a NC/Midistart conflict. I'll detail with the conflict first.

When NC has been opened and everything is working as it should, if I close NC and then re-open it (but not turning off the computer), it doesn't find or recognise the midistart controller even though I've left it turned on.

I tried a couple of things, checked the Port and Device tabs in the Configuration window and made sure they're correct. That doesn't do anything. Then, again in the Config window, I tried the Select tab and highlighted the default configuration. Midistart then appears in the config window but with ***Not Detected*** above it. So I have to restart the computer to get everything working again.

The second niggle is that the computer won't actually do a soft restart, it just hangs in the "Windows is shutting down" screen so I have to turn it off via the on/off button. This happens a lot regardless of whether I've got NC running or another music program, even with Red Dot Forever. I've googled the problem but haven't found anything useful yet.

Earlier, I emailed Miditech re a driver for the controller, they replied that I should update Windows drivers, etc., as the unit doesn't have a specific driver. Everything is up to date so I suspect the non-shutting down is due to a driver conflict.

Or, it could be a "I've not had breakfast yet" conflict! Yes? No! :)

Cheers,
Pat

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Hi Pat,

A quicky thought (I'm fixing supper) - maybe try turning off the MIDI Start, and then turning it back on after you restart Composer. There is one other keyboard that a user found (only one I know of) that actually has to be off before Composer and then turned on to work properly.

ttfn,
Sherry

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Nope, that doesn't work. I'll just keep fiddling around. Probably just have to get a different keyboard or computer at some stage. Won't be for a while though so I'll keep fiddling and swearing for now. ;)

Thanks for all your help,
Cheers,
Pat

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Hi Pat,

I think your surmise that the problem is some sort of driver conflict is most likely correct, given that Composer is not consistently detecting the device (which Composer is quite good at), and that the computer is hanging like that on shut down. A quick google on "driver for MIDI Start 25" shows that some other MIDI programs have issues with the MIDI Start 25 unit as well. That's unfortunate, because it looks like a well-built piece of equipment from what I see in descriptions. Perhaps some gentle nudging from customers would get them to come up with a more robust driver solution (probably not swearing, though ;) ).

Here's hoping for you!

ttfn,
Sherry

Re: Composer crashes when setting up midi controller
 

Thanks, Sherry.

I'll let you know if I manage to get things sorted and if there's any joy from Miditech.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

Cheers,
Pat