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-   -   34 or 54 (http://www.notation.com/vb-forum/showthread.php?t=1852)

John Lank Moriarty (john_moriarty) 11-07-2006 03:28 AM

Hey guys, I'm fourteen
 
Hey guys,
I'm fourteen years old and just starting out composing, and I was having some trouble deciding which way would be better to compose this piece( I wasn't sure which style it would qualify as,so I put it here). I have two versions of the song; one is a version where in the introduction to the melody at both places in the song, I use 3/4 bars, which takes moretime and is a little easier to follow, while in the other version, I use 5/4 bars. This version I think sounds a little rushed and is a little bit of a suprise when you first hear it, but I think it is more interesting than the other version melody-wise. I have both versions in this post, if you think one is better than the other or have an idea as to how to introduce the 5/4 bars in the beginning without so much of a knock on the head I would be very thankfull.
John
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons...hment_icon.gif3/4
Rocksong34.not (73.5 k)</td></tr></table></center>
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons...hment_icon.gif5/4
Rocksong54.not (67.3 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Tim Fatchen (flyingtadpole) 11-07-2006 11:20 AM

John, your difficuly seems to
 
John, your difficuly seems to be that the 5/4, although potentially more interesting than the 3/4, still itself has a very pronounced 3-beat which leads the ear to expect the triple time to keep rolling. I'm not sure how to get around this: irregular times are very hard to write in, which is why most don't, most times. When it works, it's wonderful (as in Brubeck, and the Stranglers). When it doesn't, it can be dire.

FWIW I prefer the 5/4 lead-=in: suggestion is to reduce the ONE-two-three feel to the first "half" of each bar: perhaps use a chord in the left hand rather than the oom-pah-pah waltz-style bass. dotted minim for first chord, minim for second.

Regards
Tim Fatchen

www.flyingtadpole.com

Mark Walsen (markwa) 11-07-2006 06:26 PM

Hello Tim and John,
 
Hello Tim and John,

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

I'm not sure how to get around this: irregular times are very hard to write in...<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>They can feel quite natural, though. Listen to Romanian folk tunes to hear how fluid 3-8th and 2-8th rhythm patterns can be mixed together. For example, listen to Bartok's transcriptions of them for piano. Note, however, that such 3-8th and 2-8th mixtures have a much different flavor than say the 3+3+2+2 (2+1+2+1+2+2) pattern of Brubeck's Tave Five. The difference is that Take Five uses 3=2+1, where as Romanian and other eastern European folk music uses 3=1+1+1 when mixed with 2=1+1 and 2=2.

Cheers
-- Mark

David Jacklin (dj) 11-08-2006 06:06 PM

Hi, John: I, too, like the
 
Hi, John:

I, too, like the 5/4 rendition, but I suggest some slight change to emphasis the 3+2 pattern.

I took the liberty of making a couple of changes to the opening bars to illustrate what I mean. I think that just the little things I did here make the ear want to hear the 5/4 pattern more and lead the listener toward the next downbeat.

One thing I have noticed is that, when I am writing a song that is in an irregular meter, I usually don't realize it until it comes time to notate it. If it's going to work, then it should flow without thinking about it.

Have fun.

David

<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons...hment_icon.gifJohn's song with altered opening
Rocksong54-29736 altered opening.not (68.3 k)</td></tr></table></center>

John Lank Moriarty (john_moriarty) 11-09-2006 03:50 AM

Hey Tim Mark and David, Th
 
Hey Tim Mark and David,
Thanks for all the advice, I took some of each and worked it into the piece. In the first lead in, I decided to use the 3/4 time signature with a new, non Oom-Pa-Pa feel to it thank goodness. (thanks for the octaves and ritardando idea David). Then in the second lead in I decided to use the 5/4 because it was defonitely led into by the melody. I think that in this part of the song it is not noticable that I'm am using 5/4 unless you count it. And yes, I completely agree david that when I write in five four meters I don't notice it untill the notation stage, like the five four bridge between the intro and the melody, I had no idea it was five four untill I got right down to counting. In the second time the lead in appeared I decided not to change the left hand because I messed around with some less 3/4ish things, but the 8th notes I think work well enough.

Heres what is now (but not for long most likely)the finished version:
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons...hment_icon.gif5/4 and 3/4 Mixed
song34n54.not (74.2 k)</td></tr></table></center>


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