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-   -   How Ibm using Composerrecording (http://www.notation.com/vb-forum/showthread.php?t=1737)

Tim Fatchen (flyingtadpole) 02-05-2005 11:28 AM

Sherry Crann after listening t
 
Sherry Crann after listening to some of my music asked me how I record it. There are two aspects here: one the midi recording in Midinotate and the other an audio recording of either midi output or keyboard output. "Keyboard" means "music keyboard" in all the following.

I tend to work from the keyboard in real time, not step record and not note-by-note. That's partly explained elsewhere in this forum, although now I also doodle at a keyboard with Midinotate running and recording the midi output:
http://www.notation.com/cgi-bin/disc...=6403#POST6403

Midinotate Composer gets variously used as:
1. A capturer of one-off keyboard input
2. A sequencer performing while more parts are input from the keyboard over-the-top, or while a playing part has more notes added to it
3. A notation and sequence editor (including dynamics, tempo etc) with mouse, fingers and occasionally keyboard involved in the editing
4. A sequencer performing by itself--driving either a stand-alone synthesiser or a virtual synthesiser
5. A sequencer running earphone-only accompaniment so a singer can sing a clear, accompaniment free track for later mating with the audio output of the sequencer--sounds circular till you think about it...
6. A producer of sheet music so that a human performer can then perform.
(I think that's the full list)

1 to 3 are purely Midi functions, all described in the Midinotate help. 4 to 6 have audio output which needs recording and fiddling with, and 5 has to have the ability to mix audio tracks with midi tracks, which is beyond the present scope!

At its simplest, audio recording from a stand-alone synthesiser involves Midinotate sending midi info to one of my midi keyboards, the audio line of which comes back to the line-in socket of the soundcard. I use separate audio recording software to capture the line-in. The soundcard, as with most modern sound cards, is capable of acting as the midi interface (Midinotate/synthesiser) as well as the audio recorder. The resulting .wav file is cleaned up a bit with audio editing software. But there's a limit to how many silk purses can be created with the audio editing gear!

You're allowed to stop reading now. The rest is examples and the actual equipment/software used. Still here? Right then...

EXAMPLES

Neither silk purses nor pigs' ears, the following can be streamed on http://www.soundclick.com/flyingtadpolemusic.htm

"Lost, forlorn" Midinotate performing by itself; multiple parts. Not strictly in time and not "cleaned up"

"Notomonotony" Midinotate as a recorder of an actual performance, or actually three sequential performances (three parts), each performed with the metronome running: not cleaned up other than a couple of discordant notes edited out.

"Notomonotony 2" Midinotate performing by itself after extended editing of the notation. (Note, a different synth. was used from the previous. The real differences are in more accurate time and more even "playing")

"Tidewater 2" A human performance using sheet music generated by Midinotate. A lot freer in timing and expression than it would be under a metronome. A Midi transcript of this performance would not be a pretty sight. Better-quality recordings (download only) of this and Notomonotony 2 at http://music.download.com/timfatchen

Examples of mixed audio/midi recordings: most of the vocals at http://music.download.com/internetopera other than the scatological "Catfish Row", which was live tape to tape recording without benefit of computers as a recording studio...

EQUIPMENT

My equipment is regarded as an infradig amateur lash-up by purists, but is adequate for my current standard and did not require black-market body part sales to fund.

The amount an amateur could spend is appalling. BTW, by definition, almost all musicians are amateurs ("Don't give up your day-job!"). In Australia, most practising visual artists earn less than $A3000/year from sales of their art, so they are amateurs too. I don't see what the issue is with sneering at "amateurs", unless it's to convince them to buy "professional" equipment at enormous cost for little musical improvement. So, I'm going to detail just what I have/did spend, as until very recently we were very, very money-challenged. $A1=$US0.70, indeed $US0.55 earlier on.

An IBM 300PL P3 550Hz 384MB desktop with 2 hard drives (total cost on Ebay about $A200) The hard drives only total 25GB so it's getting time for buying an 80GB drive as the price continues to plunge.

Audigy 1 soundcard (remaindered, $A95 two years ago, now available on eBay for about $A45), replaced a Live! 5.1 bought new on eBay for $A35 and now running on the office computer as its soundcard. There are better soundcards, but add a zero to those prices for them, folks.

A midi-cable adaptor kit for converting the Audigy gameport to midiport ($A15),

A MidiDock midi interface, bought for use with a laptop but which can also go on the printer port of the IBM and run as yet another midi output without the delay (latency) issues which appear with USB 1.1 midi interfaces on the slow computer, about $A20 for memory (more remaindered stock).

OTHER SOFTWARE APART FROM MIDINOTATE
The Audigy came with its own recording and audio edit software which I still use for audio recording.

Cakewalk Music Creator 2000, now supplanted as my midi editor/sequencer by Midinotate but which is still used for some aspects of music production and for mating audio and midi tracks. Effectively the same software as in Cakewalk Home Studio except it won't allow you to change instruments unless you know the work-around trick. $A135 when I bought it in 2001 (in theory it could have been bought for 1/3rd the price out of the USA, but could only be couriered at a price that would have made it $A170 when it arrived here. "Clowns to the left of me/Jokers to the right...").

JawsPDF for printing for which I had a free (promotional) version courtesy of a computer mag's cover disc--I've since bought it and its stablemate for professional use, otherwise I would have continued with the earlier free version.

As of a week ago, Steinberg Clean 4.0, also a free promotional with a computer magazine, which I've tried out and which is going to make an enormous difference to my recordings! Goodbye hiss, rumble, snap, crackle, pop!

As of now, a bundle of SoundFonts which I haven't yet had time to try out.

Behringer studio earphones, to keep my marriage intact. Bought new, not very expensive. $A45 ?

Note the repeated words "eBay", "free" "promotional", "remaindered". If you are both brave and careful, those words will save you a great deal of money.

SYNTHS/KEYBOARDS

The three hardware (wavetable) synths with the Audigy card

A venerable Yamaha PSR-310 (it must be the only one surviving in captivity) bought in Singapore in 1992. It was not repeat not cheap at the time, even though it was the bottom of the midi-capable range then.

A Medeli MC710 bought (you guessed!) on eBay, new, $A420 including courier. Bought with grave suspicion as a cheapie 76-key keyboard intended for use as a dumb keyboard, turns out to have quite reasonable sounds (especially brass, where the Yamaha falls down) and a good organ action, and I haven't broken it yet.

[My acoustic recording equipment, not really relevant to the Midinotate input but worth mentioning, comprises two excellent 30-year old Sennheiser mics, unused when I bought them ($A25 on eBay), an old but serviceable Tascam 112R cassette deck ($A120 on eBay) used for recording acoustic piano mainly and my John Brinsmead & Sons piano which was not bought on eBay. I'm streets ahead of the decrepit tape-to-tape boom-box and appalling mike on which the scatological "Catfish Row" (http://music.download.com/timfatchen) was performed 3 years ago]

WHAT I DON'T HAVE AND NEED RIGHT NOW:

A mixer (2 keyboards, only one stereo line-in socket on the Audigy 1 card!

A good mezzo-soprano, a soprano, a good tenor, a reasonable tenor and a good baritone. Apply within.

Whew!
Regards,
Steptoe, oops, I mean, Tim

Mark Walsen (markwa) 02-05-2005 07:26 PM

Tim, This is quite a thorou
 
Tim,

This is quite a thorough description of your music making studio. The good quality of the final sound production of "Notomonotony" demonstrates that one doesn't need a lot of expensive sound gear and software.

The process by which you compose illustrates one of several alternative ways that MidiNotate Composer serves as a composer's tool. It doesn't do the composing for the composer, but it makes it easy for the composer to save and notate his musical ideas. The option you use is live recording. This happens to be my method of composing. Therefore, MidiNotate Composer is particularly well-optimized to support this method of composing, as the author of Composer had some special influence in the choice of Composer's features.

You have an excellent memory, or perhaps good records, of what you spent for the various pieces of equipment. Your purchasing methods illustrate not only frugality but also a practice of incremental building of a studio. One doesn't have to buy everything at once. One can add extra pieces to the studio as one's needs and desires increase. This approach to building a studio works equally well for music hobbiests (a category I would include myself in) and semi-professional and professional musicians.

One of the techniques you describe in the above posts is that the sound source for the piano and violin sounds come from your music keyboard. You play from MidiNotate to your music keyboard; it sends audio back to your soundcard input line; and then you use a separate audio recording program to record the audio coming in on the soundcard input line. This does introduce signal noise, but the technique is quite adequate for many purposes less ambitious than the producing music CDs for mass distribution. I haven't employed this technique myself, but I should do so to get a feel for how some MidiNotate users like yourself do this. I'm wondering what the least expensive and/or easiest-to-use tool would be for recording the audio. Would the free Windows / Accessories / Sound Recorder work?

Your interesting "how I compose" post should serve to inspire others on how they can piece together a studio, hopefully without intimidating some who might think that one needs all of these things to compose and arrange music. It is possible to accomplish a whole lot with just two things: (1) MidiNotate Composer, and (2) any sound card, such as SoundBlaster. If one has music keyboard skills, good keyboards with 60 (instead of 88) keys, and reasonable softness/loudness (MIDI velocity) sensitivity, can be purchased for as little as $100-$150(US). Starting with such a basic studio, one can then purchase more gear as one's needs and desires increase, if one's spouse allows such.

Cheers
-- Mark



Tim Fatchen (flyingtadpole) 02-05-2005 11:42 PM

Hi Mark, Some responses to
 
Hi Mark,

Some responses to specific queries in your post:
__________________________________________________ ____

" You play from MidiNotate to your music keyboard; it sends audio back to your soundcard input line; and then you use a separate audio recording program to record the audio coming in on the soundcard input line. This does introduce signal noise, but the technique is quite adequate for many purposes....I'm wondering what the least expensive and/or easiest-to-use tool would be for recording the audio. Would the free Windows / Accessories / Sound Recorder work? "
__________________________________________________ ____

I was never able to persuade the free Windows / Accessories / Sound Recorder to record more than 1 minute (Windows 98). Perhaps there's a way, as with so many of Windows' arcane features, but I couldn't find it and there were easier and better solutions.

The original sound card in the office computer was a primitive ESS: tucked away in its driver disc was a complete recording/playing interface complete with equalisers, faders etc. In fact it was too fully featured, and a bit erratic, so I then used the much simpler recording program LPRecorder, a fully functional version of which came as (yes!) a free promotion on a disc attached to a computer magazine. But I needn't have spent the $A6 (about) in buying the mag, since the computer as it stood, using the sound card's program, was capable of recording for as long as the hard disk had room.

Signal noises, buzzes, clicks--I was happy with those recordings for a long time (until I finally bought decent studio earphones, in fact!) The original Internet Opera files which I put on mp3.com just before it died (no, they weren't responsible) were full of them, still managed a couple of thousand plays and the (very) odd CD sale...

The signal noise I try to reduce now by having the input signal high (volume cranked right up at the synthesiser) and will be attacking it post-recording with the free promotional Steinberg Clean (I've tried other freeware programs and they don't hack it, nor does the cleaner-upper that came with the Audigy card). But a crucial issue is the noise generated by the sound-card itself. THe old ESS hissed and spat like a bad-tempered feline. The Audigy has a very low internal signal to noise ratio. Professional level cards have even less, but you pay big money for it. My IBM laptop is somewhere in-between.
_____________________________
" It is possible to accomplish a whole lot with just two things: (1) MidiNotate Composer, and (2) any sound card, such as SoundBlaster. If one has music keyboard skills, good keyboards with 60 (instead of 88) keys, and reasonable softness/loudness (MIDI velocity) sensitivity, can be purchased for as little as $100-$150(US). Starting with such a basic studio, one can then purchase more gear as one's needs and desires increase, if one's spouse allows such. "
_____________________________

And yes, you're quite right: $US150 will buy a _good_ serviceable 60-key keyboard here. And almost everybody's home computer is more fully featured than mine now (sigh). And you may already possess adequate recording software lurking in the software that came with the computer or soundcard. All you need is the midi-adaptor (USB to midi will do for a new computer) and the audio feed lead, and you're away!

Regards
Tim

http://music.download.com/timfatchen
http://music.download.com/internetopera

Tim Fatchen (flyingtadpole) 02-07-2005 06:52 AM

________________ "The Aud
 
________________
"The Audigy has a very low internal signal to noise ratio."
________________

Oops...the Audigy cards have a very HIGH signal to noise ratio. That means lotsa signal, little noise...I hate ratios, proportions, inverses...

Robert Coppedge (robertc1936) 02-07-2005 04:47 PM

Hi Tim, Mark, and All: Ther
 
Hi Tim, Mark, and All:

There IS a way to use the built in Microsoft sound recorder for more than one minute. The process is a little cumbersome but it DOES WORK!!

Here are the steps to take:

1. Click "RECORD" and let Sound Recorder go for the full minute in silence.

2. In the FILE menu, click "SAVE AS" and name the file "Blank.wav"

3. Click "INSERT FILE" in the EDIT menu, and then insert the "Blank.wav" File.

4. Repeat Step 3 for as many times as you want in minutes that you want to record, then use "SAVE AS" , again as "Blank.wav"

5. When you want to use this extra time, just bring up Sound Recorder and open the Blank.wav file, and you can record for as much time in minutes as you repeated steps 3 and 4 above.

Hope this helps.



Bob Coppedge.

Sherry Crann (sherry) 02-08-2005 02:08 PM

Howdy, Good tip, Bob! Than
 
Howdy,

Good tip, Bob! Thanks for sharing it. I have a friend who is trying to do some recording, and I'll pass it along to him.

ttfn,
Sherry

Lawrence Pregler (larry) 09-15-2005 04:33 PM

Mark or Sherry: I have a purc
 
Mark or Sherry:
I have a purchased copy of Musician 1.1.4 and I'm considering upgrading to Composer.
Here is what I'm doing: (1) I'm a Church guitarist and receive the music on practice night (the piece generally doesn't have the chords indicated). I then scan to"Sharp Eye" which converts to a midi file (with mistakes that need correction). I pull the .mid file into Cakewalk where I make all the corrections in the music and lyrics, etc. I can then import the midi file into Musician and get the chord names, set the music up for printing and make both a full print and a cheat sheet (this often brings me from ten pages to two or three pages, which fits nicely on the music stand).
Would Composer allow fewer changes in my steps?

(2) I'm a composer who doesn't read music by sight (hence needing the chord names to play), but can write, and have sold a few jazz and classic style pieces over the years. I have six sound modules and two effects processors in my rack which I should be hooking up soon (after having moved to my retirement home). Will I have access to them all through Musician and/or Composer.

I am liking the accuracy of Musician, and the publishing is so much better than Cakewalk (any version) or any other programs I've tried.

Thanks for your responsiveness to your customers, and your rapid changes to update the programs to fit their reasonable requests.
Thanks, Larry


Sherry Crann (sherry) 09-15-2005 05:31 PM

Howdy Larry, It sounds like
 
Howdy Larry,

It sounds like you are a "man for all genres" with your music. That's got to be a lot of fun!

I often use Composer for our church group similar to what you are doing. I scan sheet music for translation to a midi file, then import the file into Composer to make all the changes I want to do. I use Composer to make all the corrections and do the print outs. Additionally, if you're printing music for others in your group, you can add annotations and such as you go along with your editing. These annotations are all saved in the .not file that Composer will save. I also use the "Parts" feature to print out only certain parts for other players, or just a chord/melody part for our guitarist.

As for accessing your sound modules, that will depend on if they have midi capability. If you've been using them with Cakewalk, you should have no problem using them with Musician and Composer. You can even import the device configuration files (for bank and patch names) that you used with Cakewalk into Musician or Composer.

I think that probably your effects processors would come after your sound modules in your sound chain. Is this correct? Or have you been using them with other MIDI controllers? I haven't played around with any external effects units (except in "live" settings), so I'm not sure how they would fit in with the setup of files in Cakewalk (if you've been doing that) or Musician/Composer. But I'd be willing to learn!

I hope this is helpful!

ttfn,
Sherry





Lawrence Pregler (larry) 09-16-2005 03:11 AM

Hi Sherry: Yes it is fun. . .
 
Hi Sherry:
Yes it is fun. . . but time consuming to switch between the programs to get done what needs to be done.
Regarding my effects processors, I set them up on channel 16 on each of the two modules that do not have effects. My other modules do have effects that can be configured via sysex imbeded within the .wrk or .mid file and can be altered on the fly. At the end of my chain is a compressor/gate that's an old one but effective. They link through a Midiman 8X8 USB, and each module runs through a 16x Mixer to a stereo amp which drives my Bose speakers (before I moved I had a pair of Martin Magnificats with double 14" woofers, short and long throw, 8", 2x 5" and 2x 1 1/2" tweeters. No room big enough for them now (without cracking the walls).
I was not aware that I could use my .ins (Cakewalk config. file) in Musician or Composer. I'll have to try the Composer demo this weekend and if it can speed up (or make my life more fun) my work, I'll buy it before the price change deadline.
Regards, Larry



R S Bob Heuman 09-05-2006 03:42 PM

I want to take several hundred
 
I want to take several hundred/thousand piano roll midi files and do the following:

1, Merge the two staves each has
2. Split the new stave into two hands
3. Split each of these two new staves into two hands
4. Take each of the 4 staves and set the PAN for them...
100 for the RH RH stave
75 for the RH LH stave
50 for the LH RH stave
25 for the LH LH stave
5. Save the file in place of the original as a .MID file.

In other words, I am converting the piano roll from a PAN 64 throughout midi to a 'fake' stereo midi so that when it is listened to it sounds a bit more like you are sitting right in front of the keyboard and hearing the bass on the left and the trebble on the right.

Can this be done via a script of some sort, or does each of the hundreds/thousands of piano roll scans that I have in midi form need to be done individually, via the keyboard or mouse, one at a time...

That is the main way I would use ANY midi composing tool... to modify extant midi files to the way I want them.

Please feel free to email me IF there is a scripted solution to what I want to do... Otherwise do not bother.

Mark Walsen (markwa) 09-05-2006 06:58 PM

Hello Bob, MidiNotate does
 
Hello Bob,

MidiNotate does not have a command script editor. Cakewalk Sonar's scripting language might work for you. I don't know if it can loop through a directory of MIDI files, though.

I think a better way to achieve the piano stereo effect would be to make the left-right pan perhaps proportional to the MIDI pitch value of each note.

Cheers
-- Mark

Jessy 08-08-2007 03:17 PM

Thanks, Mark! I need something
 
Thanks, Mark! I need something like Bob and your last post helps me!
I`m looking for a solution for a long time, and only now i take it.
One more thanks!

--
Jessy


R S (Bob) Heuman (rshrsh) 08-08-2007 05:23 PM

I've found a way to do jus
 
I've found a way to do just that... I have the latest version of SynthFont [1.081], which is programmed by Kenneth Rundt in Finland. It now, on screen 4 [Tracks], under Mixer, has a feature called PAN Spread, based on my suggestions to him. If you select that feature and move the arrow to the right, the first time is Piano Back and the second time is Piano Front, so you get the keyboard spread across 88 PAN positions as it is played, according to the note actually played, from PAN 20 to PAN 107. Piano Front is as if you were at the keyboard, with bass to the left, while Piano Rear has the bass to the right. I use that to create an OGG file. Then I use 'ACE-HIGH MP3 WAV WMA OGG Converter' to convert the OGG file to a WMA file [until Kenneth programs a direct WMA production into his program] since I can produce a WMA CD with 12 hours of music on it, while I cannot do that with OGG files. So to get the effect of spreading the PAN sound out to create a stereo impact/effect, I am using SynthFont [www.synthfont.com] It is a vast sound improvement over PAN 64 for the whole thing...

Djim Tio (djimtio) 08-13-2007 11:40 AM

Howdy Bob Thatīs quite a nice
 
Howdy Bob
Thatīs quite a nice feature in the recent version of Synthont (1.0.8.1 ).I am using it now to create a more convincing sort of " bi-amping " effect for my basslines( also using Amplitude as VSTi).
Thanks for the tip.Keep them coming!
Regards
Djim


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