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-   -   With a jazzswing flavour (http://www.notation.com/vb-forum/showthread.php?t=2041)

Clyde (clyde) 06-06-2005 01:19 AM

Hi, I always marvel at thos
 
Hi,
I always marvel at those who can actually create and compose music without lots of help, as indeed many who have contributed to this forum can do. I have enjoyed playing their compositions.

I'm in the category of needing all the help I can get, and my skills if any are more in the area of manipulating computer software programs to generate and produce music that I like. Hence, I start with a program such as 'Band in a Box' (BIAB) and get it to do the 'first cut' for me (chords & melody), and then I get in and fiddle/adjust/rearrange etc what it has produced.

I then use Composer to produce a playable score (I find the music score from BIAB too hard for me to play note for note). I use the BIAB rendition to show how it sounds with a small jazz band.

The .NOT file is actually a combination of both my simplified piano score and the BIAB band. The score is shown as a 'piano' Composer part (but muted), and the BIAB band is shown as a 'hidden' part and that is what you hear.

The attached song is typical of my music, simple little tunes, with a jazz/swing flavour for use in Church.

<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons...hment_icon.gifGod so loved
B70_John_3_16-BIAB.not (84.2 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Cheers ... Clyde

Mark Walsen (markwa) 06-06-2005 01:43 AM

Hi Clyde, I'm sure I
 
Hi Clyde,

I'm sure I've listened to this one your yours at least 50 times doing various tests. It would be a memorable melody in my ear, even if I had not heard it so many times. It's one of my favorite of your pieces.

The melody is very catchy. I've never been able to analyze why some melodies seem so much better than others. If I could, I'd be able to write better melodies myself.

I'm interested in how the melody was written. Did BIAB take a first shot at the melody? Then, at a minimum, you had to fix up the rhythms to fit your lyrics, right? Did you change the pitches in the melody to be more to your liking? How much did the lyrics dictate the melody? And the other way, how much did you change the lrycis to fit the melody?

This is a very well-constructed piece harmonically, melodically, and structurally, IMHO.

Cheers
-- Mark

Clyde (clyde) 06-06-2005 02:21 AM

Hi Mark, Thanks for your co
 
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your comments - I was aware of your earlier comments about this song and that gave me the courage to present it.

The role that BIAB plays is significant. Having said that, its very rarely that I take what it just generates first time and use it. BIAB has the ability to redo parts of a song (either chords or melody or both).

It usually takes me a full day to get something out of BIAB that I think I can work with. I get BIAB to generate songs in a variety of styles. Anything that appeals to me (which is less than 5% of the songs generated) I save. In a day, I may end up with 3 or 4 possible melodies.

I then come back to it again a few days later and 'cull' the generated tunes. I find that there are parts of the generated music that either no longer appeals or would be too hard to use. So I rework that. This reworking is done by using the BIAB 'part song' redo facility and can be at either the melody or chord level. At this stage, I may throw them all away and start again. (only about 10% pass this stage)

Having now achieved a song that I like, and still like after a week or so, I then start thinking about the words. There are plenty of Christian/Bible themes of all moods to choose from, and so I try to select a topic that would suit the music. (This is probably back to front for those who compose their own music).

While the above 'God so loved' from the lyrics point of view is very simple, most of my lyrics are more complex. I work out what thoughts I would like the song to convey, just as one would in preparing a sermon. This gives me the 'substance' of the lyrics (no actual lyrics yet).

I then go back to the BIAB tune, and make it singable. This usually involves three steps:
(a) making the melody pitch within range. This may be just changing octaves.
(b) removing fast runs etc where it would be impossible to sing any words,
(c) just touching up the melody here and there a bit to make it easier, and also to end in a satisfying way.

I now have something that I think will appeal. I then begin to work on the words.

So its a long process - and those who can compose directly are probably thankful they are spared from this tedious process. But we get there in the end.

Cheers ... Clyde



Mark Walsen (markwa) 06-06-2005 04:27 AM

Hi Clyde, Thanks for this c
 
Hi Clyde,

Thanks for this clear explanation of how you use BIAB to compose.

In some ways, your method of using BIAB to compose is similar to that of individuals who compose by fooling around with improvisations. A good jazz musician's first shot at an improvisation might be so good that it sounds like a polished composition. But for many of us who compose by improvising, the process is like yours with BIAB. One tries out ideas by improvising, to see which work and which don't. The difference is that in your case, BIAB provides the first ideas, whereas in the other case, the improviser comes up with the ideas-- although, really, he is doing something like BIAB, by borrowing musical ideas he's already heard, that are already in his fingers.

Where your BIAB method and the improvisation method are the same is that you have to use musical judgment to decide what is worth keeping and what isn't. That is demonstrated by the fact that it takes you a full day in BIAB to generate 3 or 4 melodies (with harmonies) that you might find useful. If you didn't use your own developed musical judgment, you might settle on one of the first couple melodies after 30 minutes, and the resulting composition would not be as good.

You've found a great musical partner, PG Music's BIAB to collaborate with in your composing.

Cheers
-- Mark

Gracie Knafel (gknafel) 06-24-2005 09:54 PM

Cool! I just listened to "
 
Cool! I just listened to "God So Loved", and it brought smiles to my face. Good job! I'm going to try and play it on my keyboard. The tune is catching! Gracie

Gracie Knafel (gknafel) 06-24-2005 11:30 PM

Clyde, can you tell me how you
 
Clyde, can you tell me how you obtained the CCLI to your music? Is there a license fee? Can anyone request it? "Copyright: Clyde McLennan, 2005. Can be copied and freely used by any church, but not for financial gain or profit. CCLI #4377999" Thanks, Gracie

Clyde (clyde) 06-25-2005 01:32 AM

Hi Gracie, Thanks for yo
 
Hi Gracie,

Thanks for your comments about my song. The full set of my music is at www.jazzworship.com

In regard to CCLI copyright, its all straightforward. They have a web page at www.ccli.com and you check out the 'administrators' section.

Basically the situation is as follows:

(a) You pay a joinging fee to CCLI - about $80 (not too sure of current fee). This fee makes you an 'administrator' for copyright within your region. (eg USA, or Asia etc). You can request CCLI to give you coverage for all regions, which they do for no additional charge.

(b) Each song that you want covered by copyright has to be registered with them. There is a simple form to fill in, and you send it to them, along with the music and lyrics and they register the song. They give each song a CCLI number.

And that is about all there is to it. Suggest you e-mail them, I deal with the Australian office of CCLI have found them to be most helpful.

I would suggest that the benefit of CCLI is not to 'make lots of money' but rather to protect your rights in your songs, should some company want to publish them. I believe you can protect yourself and at the same time give permission for people to use it freely.

Cheers ... Clyde

Gracie Knafel (gknafel) 06-25-2005 04:55 AM

Clyde, Thank you and thank you
 
Clyde, Thank you and thank you! You have been so helpful. I will be able to get my license setup now. Appreciate the information!

Gracie

Clyde (clyde) 07-01-2005 04:23 AM

Hi Gracie, I tried to rep
 
Hi Gracie,

I tried to reply to your e-mail about CCLI but got a Mailbox error:

<gknafel@insightbb.com>: host gateway.insightbb.com[63.240.76.150] said:550-203.10.1.131 blocked by blacklist.sequoia.ops.asp.att.net. 550 Blocked for abuse. Please contact the administrator of your ISP or sending mail service. (in reply to MAIL FROM command)


Please contact me and I will try to send it to you again.

with thanks ... Clyde




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