Howdy Mark, It's all &#
 

Howdy Mark,

It's all "internal". Ie, in Audacity, you can choose from a drop-down list of sources for recording, and to record Composer's MIDI output, I can either use "What you hear" or "Midi synth" and get a recording of the performance without having to mess with cables.

You can also record "live" audio through Composer (using the "record sound audition"), but in that particular case, you don't want to use "What you hear", because then the first track will also be recorded again (because you can hear it when you're recording the second track).

I tried it out using a drum track that I had. I played the drum track in Composer and recorded the performance in Audacity, using "midi synth" for the input. I then added a "fretless bass" track, and did the "audition" thing (double click the voice button to make it red), and then recorded my "freestyle" playing directly into Audacity, without playing anything in Composer. I have the settings in Audacity so that whatever has already been recorded plays as I record another track, so I could hear the drum track recording that I had already made. If there is any delay, you'll need to "time adjust" the tracks so they match up (this may be an issue for some synths).

You can also choose wave, microphone, analog mix (line, CD, aux), or CD digital as a source for recording. I haven't tried those out yet, though. Then when you're done, you can adjust panning, volume, as well as some effects (a goodish list, including EQ) and mix it down to a nice stereo file. I'm looking forward to working with it a bit more. It has a few strengths that my Creative Wave Studio doesn't have, and vice versa, so it is a nice tool to have.

ttfn,
Sherry

Howdy Fred, I'll email
 

Howdy Fred,

I'll email you the fonts that I have (they are free distribution, as long as they are kept intact http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif ). And doing the vocals will be fun - thanks for letting me http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

As for doing your own recording, don't shy away from inexpensive mics - they're not necessarily bad, they just may not be as "hardy" as the more expensive ones. I have a couple of Nady Starpower 9 mics that I got from Musician's Friend when they had them on sale for $11 each! One of my "sound guy" friends said that they had bought a couple as "backups" for church, and when they ran a spectrum analysis on them, they came right up there with some Shure mics that cost 10x more. I use mine for recording vocals, whistle, and other acoustic instruments, and they are just fine for my purposes. I don't use them for a traveling band, and I treat them nicely.

So go for it - get some of that scat singing in http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

Howdy Mark, Re. the first o
 

Howdy Mark,

Re. the first one - the "record sound audition" is a Composer feature, not an Audacity feature. I had Audacity set to "midi synth" or "what you hear", and it recorded the sounds that I was playing via my keyboard through Composer. Does this make sense?

Second, the drop down list looks like this:

http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/27193.jpg

It's located in the middle of the menu bar. There is also a listing under File/Preferences for a number of parameters that you can mess with to do various things.

ttfn,
Sherry

Hi Sherry, In Audacity, the
 

Hi Sherry,

In Audacity, the dropdown menu is disabled. I already did a File New. A single audio track is ready for recording from some source. But I don't know what I need to do to activate the dropdown menu.

If you should be resting instead of helping me learn Audacity, please rest. There's no hurry for me to do this. But you did get my curiousity going. Audacity might be a handy tool for Composer users.

Cheers
-- Mark

Howdy Mark, I'm includi
 

Howdy Mark,

I'm including a screen grab of my File/Preferences/Audio I/O (tab) dialog. I noticed that if the "Enable meter toolbar" was unchecked, the drop-down menu wasn't on the toolbar. Is this what you mean?

http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/27196.jpg

I think you're correct that this could be a very useful tool for MidiNotate users!

Perhaps one of us (or anyone else who uses it) could sort of run it through a few paces and then write up a bit more extensive "quick guide" of some type in the Third Party Software section.

ttfn,
Sherry

Hello Sherry, The Audacity
 

Hello Sherry,

The Audacity Preferences looks just like yours. Yet the dropdown that includes the MIDI Synth option is still disabled. I haven't found any documentation that suggests why the dropdown control is disabled. My best guess is that this has something to do with Preferences / Audio I/O. Could you show me a screenshot of that panel?

Thanks!
-- Mark

Howdy Mark, I hadn't no
 

Howdy Mark,

I hadn't noticed before, and didn't know if you did, but there is a "full manual" available for Audacity at http://audacity.soundforge.net/ It may have the answer to your dilema.
It calls the On-line help that is included with Audacity a "Quick Guide".

In the meantime....
I know this is probably overkill, but I took screen shots of all my settings in the Preferences tabbed dialog box http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Hmmm.....

I just tried uploading files, but I'm not getting the little Upload dialog, just a "connecting to..." line in my browser.

I'll email you the pix for now, and if anyone else is interested, I can email them directly until such time as I can post them here.

ttfn,
Sherry

Hello Sherry, I think there
 

Hello Sherry,

I think there is some sort of incompatibility between the MIDI soundcard / driver on one of my machines and Audacity. I tried Audacity on a second machine and was able to successfully record while I was playing back from Composer. This is very handy!

I've started a new forum topic for Audacity under the Third Party Tools section of this forum. let's continue the discussions about Audacity there.

Sherry, thanks for introducing all of us to Audacity!

Cheers
-- Mark

Hi Sherry, Thanks for the inf
 

Hi Sherry,
Thanks for the info about the "full manual" available on the audacity site. I spoke too soon before about nobody writing a manual for dummies. Their manual is very understandable and complete. Thanks Audacity guys!
I do think there should be some sort of set up to configure a midi device if the program doesn't recognize it and make it available in the drop down menu. I finally figured out after three days that the only way I could record with my keyboard is to open Composer, and select PC2 on my keyboard (which should not be done for that purpose). Then minimize Composer and open Audacity to record. The volume is very faint and there is a little distortion, but it works. My keyboard connects to the computer with a USB connector. There is no "line-in" to connect it to my soundcard, but luckily I found the work-around. This could be a very useful tool with Composer
Fred

Hello Fred and Sherry, Wher
 

Hello Fred and Sherry,

Where is the Audacity manual at http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ ?

Thanks
-- Mark

Hi Mark, I'll go to the s
 

Hi Mark,
I'll go to the site and find it for you now.Get back to you>
Fred

Hi Mark, Go to the main page,
 

Hi Mark,
Go to the main page, click on "Help" then "Documentation" then dowload "Users manual" (not the quick referrence)
After downloading and unzipping, look for index.hml
The first time I used it, for some reason I had to got back on the web to read the manual. Then I could open it without going to the ineternet after that. You may not have to do that.
Fred

Hi Fred, Thanks for pointin
 

Hi Fred,

Thanks for pointing me to the Audacity Users Manual.

The Audacity Users Manual doesn't provide any more information about how Audacity determines what "Input Sources" are available. But this manual does include some introductory topics that the online help doesn't.

Cheers
-- Mark

Hi Mark, So far, I can only d
 

Hi Mark,
So far, I can only do it through Composer. Anyway, I might possibly be onto something. Since Audacity doesn't yet allow playing of midi files, I found if you open Composer and Audacity together, you can play a midi file in Composer, maximize audacity and select record and hear the midi file playing in Composer and record the keyboard in Audacity. I laid down a base and drum part in Composer and played it back and recorded in Audacity. However, the sound is distorted. But it shows it can be done. I was just having fun playing with it, though. I would probably use it mainly to record vocals with mp3 or wav files.
Fred

Hello Fred, I had the same
 

Hello Fred,

I had the same problem that the recording of Composer by Audacity was distored with crackles. Perhaps there are settings in Audacity that can fix this.

Cheers
-- Mark

Hi Mark, Yeah, I was looking
 

Hi Mark,
Yeah, I was looking in the direction of the volume settings but it didn't seem to help. When I select my soundcard in preferrences instead of the Windows mapping, the volume in Audacity for record is set all the way down and it can't be moved up. I was scanning their forum Q&A sections and the suggestions made to others with that problem didn't work for me. The answer is in there somewhere. By the way, did you know there is a "developer" section as well? I think you can download the code or even get a developer's beta version to check out. Everything is under "get involved".
Fred

Howdy Fred, A couple of not
 

Howdy Fred,

A couple of notes:

1. I promise I will get to your sax number in the not-too-distant-future http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif
I've been madly working to finish a project that my cousin and I are working on for our aunts and uncles. I've been getting all the accompaniment prepared (20 songs of piano arranging, for some old parlor songs and hymns)so that I could send it to her to lay down vocal tracks (she's better than me - an honest to goodness professional). I've got all her part done, but I still have two instrumental songs that I'm scanning from sheet music and have to edit (the copies are quite dark, and prone to lots of errors). When I get that finished, I'll send them along to her, as her son is doing the final mix and burn for us. We're trying to get all this done by the first of October for our annual family reunion. And I still have to get the covers done...

An interesting side note to Mark: I'm using the GPO Steinway piano, with the "Parlor" setting in Ambiance. If you listen to this, Mark, you'll probably cringe. However, my Aunt Ruth tells me that this sounds just like Grandma's piano did, because it was so old that all the pads had worn off the hammers, and they were too poor to afford having them replaced. So, I've been able to recreate, using GPO and Composer, a very close approximation of Grandma's playing. My Aunt Ruth has been our "technical advisor" for this project, as she's the only piano player in the whole bunch. When I tweaked "Blackhawk Waltz" like she told me, and sent her the performance that I recorded, she said she nearly cried, because it sounded just like Grandma playing. Pretty cool the things I've been able to do with Composer/GPO http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

2. When recording into Audacity, you might want to check the levels that are set on your soundcard for playback AND recording. Some sound cards have many places that can affect levels, and for mine I have to check not only the playback levels, but also the recording levels in order to make sure that things are high/low enough not to cause problems in Audacity.

ttfn,
Sherry

Hi Sherry, Take your time! Th
 

Hi Sherry,
Take your time! The sax thing can wait. Heck, it's waited 51 years so far. I mentioned I was going to try a couple vocals I used to do and I found 2 great arrangements for them. Only one problem, though... I thought I could just climb back up on the horse I fell off of...WRONG!
The low range hasn't lost too much, but the upper middle range cracks like I'm making popcorn, and the higher range is totally gone. Not to mention that I completely run out of air after about 3 measures. I went to Singing is easy.com (associated with thesingingspot.com) and downloaded 2 free singing lessons. They are part of a 10 lesson program, but they provide the things I need to start with. I think the program is $24.95 but when I downloaded the free lessons, they offered a $5 discount. I haven't sung a sylable in 25 years and it sure shows. Heck, I wouldn't have a prayer on American Idol, so I think the 2 free lessons might be all I need to satisfy myself and the new puppy. BTW, the puppy hates my piano playing. My other dogs loved it, but as soon as Raven hears me start to play, he runs in my office and uses his head to knock my hands off the keyboard.
Fred

Hi Sherry, That's fun t
 

Hi Sherry,

That's fun that you've been able to recreate a honky-tonk piano, or at least the worn-out pad effect if not out-of-tune effect. Maybe we'd better not let Gary know that you let his Steinway piano fall into such disrepair.

Cheers
-- Mark

Howdy Fred, Well, I'm a
 

Howdy Fred,

Well, I'm about done with honky-tonk/parlor piano, and am messing about with the sax again http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif I remember that you had mentioned that one of the sax soundfonts that I had recorded for you and also sent to you sounded better than the others, but I can't find in my emails or on the forum which one. Could you let me know again, please, and I'll record the accompaniment as it now stands and see what you think. If you like it, then I'll record a vocal and we'll call it a take http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Here's the .not and a .mid. I'm using the new release candidate for Composer 1.1, so you'll need that for the .not file.

<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons...hment_icon.gifsaxophone rock almost done http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Saxophone_rock final in progress.not (327.8 k)</td></tr></table></center>
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/mime_midi.gifsaxophone rock almost done http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif midi
Saxophone_rock final in progress.mid (38.3 k)</td></tr></table></center>

I've put in a small "sax teaser" at the beginning of the song - please feel free to change it to more appropriate sax playing. I thought a little sax at the beginning would be a Good Thing http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I also doubled the chorus at the end of the song - it just seemed to want to be there ;)

Make any changes you want, let me know about the sax soundfont, and we'll go from there!

ttfn,
Sherry

Hi Sherry, Thanks for all the
 

Hi Sherry,
Thanks for all the work on the sax tune! I did not download the latest Composer, so I am unable to read or play the .not file. The midi file is fine. I did make 3 changes:
1. I cleared the sax measure #9 thru #10 in the beginning of the song. I think it interfered with the intro. I think it would take a great deal to add sax in the beginning, but feel free to try whatever you think.
2. There were a couple of wrong words ( I think it came in the beginning when I first uploaded the song. The old yellowed manuscript had the words " I looked up and saw my flippin' little mama" and I changed them years ago to " I looked up in shock, saw my flippin' etc." I think when I first put the words in, I put the old ones in. There were a number of files and one of the wrong ones slipped through.
3. The sax ending was out of tune. The notes were correct, and when clicking on them sounded correct. However, when playing back, the concert pitch notes sounded instead of the tenor sax transposition. That probably happened when I made the solos in one key and transposed them later. The solos are fine, it was just the last measures. So I simply raised the notes one full tone for those measures instead of using the instrument transpose feature because it affected the rest of the song. It was easier to just do a few measures wrong than mess up the rest of it. I am uploading the corrected file and added the word "edited" so you can differentiate.
As far as the sax fonts are concerned, most of them are fine. I went on your Soundclick site and played the five sax samples and it seems #2 and #3 sound a little better. I found that the main problem with the fonts is the pitch. For some reason the higher register does not agree with the sax fonts. The sax sounds better in the middle register and lower. Accoustically, I played several notes higher than the instrument is made for ( my secret "falsetto" range) but that doesn't work for electronic sounds. I usually record an octave lower now for sax to avoid the "tinny" sound of available sax fonts.
Anyway, you have done a great job. Sorry for the mistakes I made. I am still in the trial and error mode. When you have the MP3 or Wav file, please e-mail me a copy of one or the other. I can use audacity to make a file of each. Thanks!!!
Fred
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/mime_midi.gifCorrecte midi file for saxophone rock
Saxophone_rock_final_in_progress_edited.mid (38.5 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Hi Sherry, "HOLD ALL TICK
 

Hi Sherry,
"HOLD ALL TICKETS....There's been an objection!"
You are absolutely right! The sax tune definitely needs sax in the beginning. (Not only in the beginning, but throughout the whole song.) I'll need a day or so to complete it. I liked the piano part so much, that I was afraid to interfere with it. But, I think I have it figured out. Using the old KISS formula, I thought I would try copying the base part and putting it in the G clef and added a sax track. I'm simply moving the pitch up 2 octaves, changing some quarter notes to eighth notes and editing the attack and duration and I think it's sounding pretty good without interfering with the piano at all. So far, I like it. I am going to try it all the way through, except I'm also thinking of switching to copying the piano fills in the chorus and playing along with the piano there. I also think the ending can use a drum rim shot before the last note and extend the last note another 4 beats and make it louder. Sorry it took me so long to get brilliant (Ha ha)
Fred

Howdy Fred, Funny you shoul
 

Howdy Fred,

Funny you should pop up with this - I was just giving this number a spin yesterday. For some reason, when I play the latest version you sent, the sax is out of tune with the rest of the song. I was playing the last midi you posted.

I think your arranging ideas sound good!! I like the piano part, too, but it is a SAX song http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I know how it goes - I have few songs that I had sort of stewing in my mind, not quite what was exactly "it", but not knowing exactly how to make them "it". Then - bingo! - out of the blue it seemed, "it" happened http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif I think it has to do with your subconcious sort of mulling it over and finally getting it right.
I'm anxious to hear this new iteration!

ttfn,
Sherry

Hi Sherry, With the out of tu
 

Hi Sherry,
With the out of tune thing, weird things have been happening all over. Maybe because of a lot of cut and paste. When I played the latest midi the last couple of measures were out of tune. If you clicked on the note with the mouse the proper tone sounded but when using the playback it was out of tune, so I raised those measures up one tone to correct it. If I used the transpose option, it took the sax in the rest of the song out of tune, That is why I only transposed those last measures. Now, measures 67 thru 78 decided to change the key signature to the key of C. It decided on its own to change the signature from 4 sharps to 4 naturals. (I don't know if that happened on my end or your's)However, during playback there was no key change and all the notes sounded correct. Also, I had to add a track for the new sax parts. But when I saved the song (as a midi) after arranging the first half of the sax part (so I could finish it later) when I reopened the file, the new sax track ended where I stopped before saving and I had to add another sax track in order to continue on. So now there are 2 sax tracks for the first half of the song and one for the last half. Then, the program continues to insist on showing the sax part in the bass clef. When I change it, it's fine. But everytime I save the file and re-open it, it decides to show the sax part in the bass clef again. There is no problem with the sound, but I would hate to have to try and read it. There is no reason for the program to have that part in the bass clef. The notes are not out of range. If these problems were the exact same when we both play the file, it would be no problem to simply copy and paste the entire notation where necessary and make the proper changes. But, I don't know what to do if each of us gets a different reaction. If you are hearing out of tune sax parts in different areas than me, then something is strange somewhere. I think we'll figure it out. If the sax is out of tune when you play it back, it should be off by 1 whole tone. After I get all the sax stuff in, I'll try to make corrections here. But, one of us could have a glitch somewhere that makes it different in the other's program. Let's see what happens after it is done. Thanks for all your help on this.
Fred

Hi Sherry, Ta DA!! I think it
 

Hi Sherry,
Ta DA!! I think it's there!
As far as I can tell, it looks like I may have fixed all the problems. Namely, the last 2 measures of the ending, the wrong key signature in #67-#78, the rock organ part (somehow got changed to piano in the track setup)etc. etc. I had to delete and add sax tracks to get the last 2 measures to play back properly. Strange! If you wrote and E, it sounded like an E, was in tune with my keyboard as an E, but playing it back it wanted to sound as a D. That's why there are 3 different tenor sax tracks showing in the setup. Anyway, i am sending you the .mid file and the .not file. IF you change anything and want to send it to me, send a midi file. I don't have 1.1 and can't read .not files created in it. Let me know what you think. Thanks again!
Fred
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/mime_midi.gifSaxophone Rock_final_edited
Saxophone_rock_final_edited.mid (39.8 k)</td></tr></table></center>
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons...hment_icon.gifSaxophone Rock_final_edited(not file)
Saxophone_rock_final_edited.not (359.1 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Howdy Fred, YYYYEEEEEEEEESS
 

Howdy Fred,

YYYYEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

That sounds great! I really like the sax throughout the piece, and the way you handled the piano is terrific - it still retains the "flavor" while toning down the actual piano presence.

I'll have to get my soundfont settings from the older file that I was working with and plug them in to this new song file - that should rock some socks off!

Now I'm anxious to get it recorded - this is fun http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I should add here that I've been experimenting with Audacity, and just tonight I took a vocal track that I'd recorded to an accompaniment track that was slightly off time in two spots from the accompaniment track I recorded tonight. I used some various "time manipulation" techniques to make them mesh together so you couldn't tell that they weren't recorded together. It's the revised Psalm 23 on my SoundClick site. I think there may be some promise there for you to record some of your own vocals, or other acoustic/live parts to mesh with your Composer/keyboard recordings.

ttfn,
Sherry
www.soundclick.com/beanfield_castle

Hi Sherry, Yeah! Glad you lik
 

Hi Sherry,
Yeah! Glad you like it. Speaking of recording vocals in Audacity. I did 4 so far and I am having the time of my life. Being 67 years old and not singing for 30 years, I didn't think I had a prayer. Actually, I was shocked. They are in tune (mostly) no cracking (much)and I didn't hold back or start off with anything easy. But, I didn't get any strong encouragement from my wife. She said " It isn't BAD, but not to go near 'Star Search' ". Heck, I thought I could at least make it past the early rejections on American Idol if I bought a wig and lied about my age. ( I think I can pass for 66 ). Since you have been playing around with it, have you tried to do any harmony? I was going to try recording different tracks with each other and see if I could get a sound like the 4 Freshmen.....um...4 Seniors?
Anyway, I'm ready to have my socks knocked off. Can't wait to hear the whole thing! I'm off now to listen to your revised Psalm 23.
Fred

Hello Fred and Sherry, This
 

Hello Fred and Sherry,

This is the first time I listened to Saxaphone Rock. It's a lot of fun!

Sorry that I couldn't join in the fun and conversation about this, but I was busy getting 1.1 out. I didn't even have time to read the forum messages. The days are fast approaching where I won't be able to read every forum message.

For my benefit, and any other forum reader who is jumping into this late, could you provide me a quick summary of how this song was created? Did Fred write it from scratch? The piano and sax parts are great! Did Fred record parts from a MIDI keyboard. I wish I could play the piano like that. What were Sherry's contributions here? Did any auto-composition software like BIAB help out?

Cheers
-- Mark