MIDI Delay

[jhwater]

First let me say that there is a lot of very useful advice on this forum that has helped me out. That being said, I am having an issue with MIDI delay where it seems to take about an 1/8 of a note before notes on the keyboard are recorded (and/or play). I am using a laptop (Win7, 2GB RAM, DOU Core) connected to a keyboard with a USB to MIDI cable. I have installed the LoopBe1 driver and when I disable the MS GS Wavetable output port, I loose sound. However, when I record this way there is still a delay. My next step is to buy a new USB to MIDI cable and see if that helps. The other solution would be to delete the first 1/8 rest that gets inserted in the beginning of my recordings and move everything over. So far I have not been abe to succed at that one either.
Please advise

[dj]

Hi, jh:

You don't specify what your playback device is.

If you lose sound when you disable the Microsoft GM device, it seems like you're going through that. Disabling it really only affects use of ASIO drivers for soft-synth playback, such as Sherry Crann's favourite SynthFont.

Why do you need LoopBe? Are you using VSTHost or something similar to play back through soft-synths?

If you're playing back through the same keyboard you're recording from, then you can test it by going to MIDI DEVICE QUICK SETUP (Setup menu), selecting the device your keyboard is connected to and clicking on TEST. If you hear sound, then your keyboard is receiving. Play a few notes on your keyboard and you should see the DETECT MIDI RECORDING DEVICE respond. At this point, we know your keyboard is set up properly.

Now, turn "LOCAL" off on your keyboard (if possible) in its MIDI setup, which means that it will only sound what it receives at its MIDI In, while still sending MIDI out. Run Composer, load a random file, click on the Staff Setup (Speaker icon) to the left of any staff (making sure that staff is set to play back to your keyboard's MIDI device) and try playing a few notes. You should hear sound from your keyboard with no discernable delay as the MIDI goes from your keyboard to Composer and directly back to your keyobard. Other than an old-fashioned IRQ problem (which shouldn't be possible anymore), I really can't see how there would be any delay there.

If you're using soft-synths in a host program and you have not installed ASIO drivers (such as the freeware ASIO4ALL) for that host program, then you're pretty lucky to have only 1/8th note delay! If you do have an ASIO driver installed, you can adjust the latency of the playback in the setup for the driver. With some fooling around, you should be able to get to little or no discernable delay. If you need it, check out ASIO4ALL (www.asio4all.com)

Either way, latency shouldn't really be a problem that is directly related to Midinotate Composer, as it, in itself, doesn't produce the sound, merely pass MIDI information to a sound-making device.

Good luck.

David

[jhwater]

Hi DJ and thanks for the prompt reponse. It's possible that I got ahead of myself a bit by reading advice for similar issues on this forum and that's why it I tried installing the LoopBe (I have since uninstalled it):o.

My goal for Notation Composor is very basic (I think) in that I just want it to help me create sheet music from playing on a MIDI keyboard. I am not concerned with high quality instrument sounds, as long as I can get a piano "noise", I'm okay. When I record as it is now, the delay creates a problem in how the notes/rests appear.

"If you're playing back through the same keyboard you're recording from, then you can test it by going to MIDI DEVICE QUICK SETUP (Setup menu), selecting the device your keyboard is connected to and clicking on TEST. If you hear sound, then your keyboard is receiving. Play a few notes on your keyboard and you should see the DETECT MIDI RECORDING DEVICE respond. At this point, we know your keyboard is set up properly."

In quick setup the only choice for MIDI Playback Device is: the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth and the only choice for the MIDI Recording Device is: MIDISport Uno In. When I click Test there are sounds and I can hear the notes (delayed) that I play on the keyboard. Notation Composer detects the device.

"Now, turn "LOCAL" off on your keyboard (if possible) in its MIDI setup, which means that it will only sound what it receives at its MIDI In, while still sending MIDI out. Run Composer, load a random file, click on the Staff Setup (Speaker icon) to the left of any staff (making sure that staff is set to play back to your keyboard's MIDI device) and try playing a few notes. You should hear sound from your keyboard with no discernable delay as the MIDI goes from your keyboard to Composer and directly back to your keyobard. Other than an old-fashioned IRQ problem (which shouldn't be possible anymore), I really can't see how there would be any delay there."

In following the above instruction, I am able to do everything as directed, but there is a delay.

"Either way, latency shouldn't really be a problem that is directly related to Midinotate Composer, as it, in itself, doesn't produce the sound, merely pass MIDI information to a sound-making device."

So at this point it seems like the problem should be the either the cable or a problem with the computer? Do you advise buying a new MIDI cable?

Thanks.

[dj]

Hi, JH:

You say that the only choice for playback is the GM Wavetable instrument. There SHOULD be another option for the UNO device.

By the way, the Midisport UNO is a very good device -- I have one myself, although I don't use it on my main system. There should be a switch on it to set up a high-speed connection that might help a bit. You might try that, but it's not the root of the problem.

Back to playback options, I think you're getting delay because you're hearing the sound coming from the GM Wavetable device, which will have some inherent latency, but Microsoft doesn't let you use an alternative (ASIO) driver for it.

Go to Setup/Midi Device Configuration and see whether the UNO device appears in the list of installed devices. If it does, you should see something like "IN OUT External Port Midisport UNO 1" and immediately under it "IN OUT External Device Midisport UNO 1". (Or some variation on that.) If it's there, right click on the "External Device" entry and choose "Set as default playback device".

If it's not there, you need to go to the Port menu and choose "Select ports" and select the device from there. Use the Help System, under Midi Devices, to get you through that. Under Config/Select, there should be a "Newly detected configuration item". Choosing that will probably do the trick. But save it under a different name at once, so it doesn't get overwritten.

BUT, the UNO device ought to be there in the first place. Mark worked very hard to make Composer's device detection very robust.

Once the UNO port is installed and selected as the default playback device, MUTE the sound from your computer, turn UP the sound on your keyboard and click on the TEST item on the menu bar of the Configuration dialogue box. You should hear a scale of notes from your keyboard.

All of that to say that the problem seems to be that you're playing back through the Microsoft Wavetable device and not routing back to your keyboard. Nothing wrong with your MIDI adapter or your computer.

Hope this helps.

David

[Sherry C]

Hi guys,

Just a short note to say that I'm glad David's experience with the Uno device has been a good one, but we've had many reports as well as my personal experience and reports from other MIDI software manufacturers that the Uno as a production unit can be flaky. It was an "inherited" unit that M-Audio picked up from another company that they acquired, and so does not necessarily reflect their overall device making quality.

So, that said, everything that David has mentioned is true, and if Composer is recognizing the Uno for recording, it should indeed be there for playback as well. Whether your keyboard makes its own sounds will be a critical factor as to whether you can use it for playback or not :)

ttfn,
Sherry

[jhwater]

David,

Thanks for your advice and it has helped a lot and the delay problem has been taken care of.

4 steps forward and 1 back.:eek: I now have an interesting Metronome issue where only it will only use piano tones for all of the different metronome beats. Only MIDI Channel 2 will allow any sound. Do you want me to start a new thread for this problem?

Sherry,

Your concern about the M-Audio cable was something that I wondered about and decided to order a different brand. While my (old) M-Audio cable appears to be working, it seemed logical to get a new one just in case.

Thanks

--Jerry

[Sherry C]

Hi,

Re. the metronome sound - make sure that in Perform/Metronome Setup the Channel is set to 10 if you're using a General MIDI (GM) device such as the GS Wavetable. Channel 10 is the GM Standard drum channel.

ttfn,
Sherry

[dj]

Hi, JH, Sherry:

Okay, I just went back and looked at the midi interface we've been talking about (it's been on my son's second system for some time) and it's not an UNO after all. It's an Edirol (Roland) UM-1. Only one letter off, though (if you spell it with ONE instead of 1)!

JH, glad you've got one problem licked. IF your UNO cable is working, don't go buy another one, unless you absolutely need to. On my main system, I'm using two Cakewalk/Roland UM-3G units, each of which is a 3-port unit, but can be daisy-chained for up to 9 ports. May be overkill for your needs, though!

Go to Perform/Metronome/Setup and you should be able to set things up as you need. Chances are your keyboard uses Midi Channel 10 for percussion sounds, so select it.

[jhwater]

Re. the metronome sound - make sure that in Perform/Metronome Setup the Channel is set to 10 if you're using a General MIDI (GM) device such as the GS Wavetable. Channel 10 is the GM Standard drum channel.


Great, this will work! Thanks for your help...

--Jerry