Notation Composer demo incomplete?

[NotationUser]

I'm currently testing Notation Composer demo...

When I try to open a new project in Notation Composer I get an error message "...Notation/Templates/Piano.not" not found.

When I continue by clicking "Ok" I get a list of templates to choose from where any other choice also does not work...

Again I can continue the following wizard pages and finally get one staff.

Is the demo incomplete and are there templates missing? :confused:

[Sherry C]

Hi,

The short answer is "Vista" :)

(The following is from our KnowledgeBase (http://notation.com/helpdesk/admin/support/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=92)article on this subject)

There is sometimes a problem with Vista if a user doesn't have the right "permissions" settings for a folder. You will need to be sure that your user name on your machine has "full control" settings for the folder C:\Users\Public\Documents\Notation\Templates\

To check this, you can right-click the Windows Start button, and select Explore.

1. On the left panel, you will see the directory for your computer.
2. Find the folder C:\Users\Public\Documents\Notation\Templates\
3. Right-click the folder name. A menu will be displayed.
4. In the menu, select Properties. The Notation Properties dialog box will be displayed.
5. In the dialog box, click the Security table.
6. At the Security tab, for Group or User Name, select your Windows Vista username.
7. Also at the Security tab, for Permissions, choose Full Control.
8. Enter OK to finish the dialog box.
If you need the templates to manually create a folder and put the template files into, you can click to download the templates here (http://www.notation.com/NS-Templates.zip).

ttfn,
Sherry

[NotationUser]

Thanks for your reply but your procedure granting access rights did not help.

The real solution is quite simple:

Notation Software needs to be installed by running the installer with admin rights with the "run as administrator" context menu option... that's all.

:mad:

[Sherry C]

Hi,

Automatically forcing the user's computer to allow the installation file to "take over" the administrator's status would not be an acceptable solution as it would amount to 'forcing our way in.' There is an etiquette that says that "nice" programs don't do that ;)

All that is required on installation is (generally) that the user who is trying to run the installation have administrator rights.

ttfn,
Sherry

[NotationUser]

The account I used had admin rights but that seemed not to be enough.

If I get it right in Vista (x64 home premium) nothing runs with admin rights except you launch it with that option.

No program can take over admin rights without causing Vista to throw a message where you can grant permission or deny that.

Your etiquette with your installer is honorable but it does not install things proper in Vista (x64 home premium) ...

[Mark W]

Hello NotationUser,

[QUOTE]When I try to open a new project in Notation Composer I get an error message "...Notation/Templates/Piano.not" not found.[/QUOTE/

When you installed Notation Compser under Vista 64-bits as "user" rather than "administration", what directory was the Notation/Template directory installed under?

Or, asked another way: what is the full path of ".../" in your original report?

Thanks


Cheers
-- Mark

[NotationUser]

As far as I remember the path to the templates has not changed after re-installation as administrator - but the folders access rights were completely different after that.

Before that I tried to manually set the access rights in the folder referring to the Vista article hints here - but that didn't work.

I have no problems running the installer as administrator - many installers request that right by themselves and I grant it to software I trust. Just Notation Software installers seem not to request this right by themselves - so I have to explicitly run it in that mode to succeed.

I understand that you wish to run your installers with the least priviledges needed, but Vista 64 is probably too restrictive to make that successful - is it? No clue, I just see that installing as administrator fixes the access rights issue.

So from my side the issue is under control - except you think it's a must running the installer with pure user rights... Which isn't quite the case either as my account I use has admin rights - otherwise I could not grant these on demand...

[Mark W]

Hello NotationUser,

Please let me know if the following simplification will work: If the installer is running under Vista (or whatever Windows version has this problem with file access privilege), then the installer should ask the user if he wants to switch to administrator mode. Would that work?

Cheers
-- Mark

[NotationUser]

I think yes.

Just I don't know when its appropriate to ask as your installer is meant for all windows platforms but my experience is just limited to Vista 64bit... Asking all users all the time on any platform will for sure lead to many support questions when to select running as admin or not...

What Vista normally does is it throws a dialog box by itself if you run an application (including installers) that requests administrator rights. So the program does not need to show up any dialog by it's own. But if you wish to do so that will be the "kind" solution - I expect the Vista alert to pop up anyway - except it is disabled in general - which is possible too if I remember right.

I am not sure if I can remember any installers not requesting admin rights and if there were any these were so rare that I didn't notice...

Granting admin rights can probably be risky with software one does not trust. But on the other hand Vista 64bit has some kernel hacking protection that makes it even difficult for some security software (like Sandboxie) to provide full control and protection. I am really no expert here but my guess is there is something special with 64bit to take into consideration too.

[Mark W]

Hello NotationUser,

Your analysis here about enabling administrator privilege in Notation's setup program rings true to me. I should rely on the setup program (by Lindersoft) take care of asking the user to switch to admin mode if needed.

Do you recall whether the setup program under Vista 64-bits asked you to switch to admin mode? (Maybe you already answered that question somewhere in this thread.)

Cheers
-- Mark

[NotationUser]

No.

To run a program "as administrator" you right click on the icon and choose the context menu option "run as administrator".

If you do so Vista asks again if you have started this program and wish to grant administrator rights.

Probably it's the simplest thing to add this information to the knowledge base if installation on Vista creates trouble... ;)

[Mark W]

Hello NotationUser,

I'd like to do better than let the user experience a failure of the installer, and then relying on him to look up the problem in our KnowledgeBase, which relatively few users would think of doing.

Instead, I probably should enhance the setup program to detect the condition under which admin mode is needed, such as under Vista. And if that condition is true, then the setup program would either ask the user whether he wants to run in admin mode (if SetupBuilder by Lindersoft can do that), or else give the user clear instructions for trying again, by right-clicking the icon and choosing admin mode.

I've recorded this as a usability problem that needs to be fixed.

Thanks for this excellent feedback!

Cheers
-- Mark

[NotationUser]

Well, solving this was pure self-interest. ;)

Why shouldn't I share the findings and fixes?

Can one expect help from others when one doesn't help himself? It's very simple IMHO, giving and taking needs a balance to work. :cool: