Sound card problem

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hello,

I wonder if anyone who uses Midinotate might have had an experience similar to the following. It is possible since midi playback is involved.

I installed Soundblaster Audigy 2 Zs. That went fine, and everything worked until I tried out playing a midi file. The instrument sound was very good, but there were frequent clicks and pops.

Assuming that there might be driver updates, I used Creative's auto-update to download and install the drives listed as critical and essential.

Wav and MP3 files acted as they should, but every time I try to play a midi file (whatever I use--Composer, Nero Media Player, Windows Media Player or Soundblaster's player--after a few to several seconds, a piercing buzz takes over and the computer freezes totally. The only option is to use the on/off button and wait out the disk scan on restarting.

I suspect there is something simple that I need to do, but I haven't found it after a lot of work. Can anybody make any suggestions?

many thanks,
mgj

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello M.G.,

This probably doesn't happen for all of the MIDI device drivers that play through your SB Audigy soundcard. Which MIDI devices work and which don't work? These are the devices that are listed by MidiNotate's Setup / Quick MIDI Device Setup command.

Cheers
-- Mark

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark,

You touch on something that is rather interesting. In the Audigy managers, in Control Panel\Sound, only SB Audigy 2 Zs Synth A (ECCO) and Synth B (ECCO) are given as choices for midi output devices and SB Audigy 2 Zs IO (ECCO) as the midi input device.

On the other hand Composer setup lists these, PLUS Microsoft GS Wavetable Sw Synth, SB Audigy 2 Zs Sw Synth (ECCO), and SB Live! Midi UART as an additonal IO External port.

But whichever device I set as default in either Windows Sound, Soundfont Bank Manager, or Composer, the buzz and lockup of the computer occur, whatever I use to play the file. (The choices, as I said, are limited to the A and B Synth for output in Windows and Audigy's SFBM.)

I've also had some odd things happen. After using Vienna Soundfont Editor for a half hour, with it working flawlessly, I got an access violation and it crashed (but not the computer) and the shortcut to it was grayed out and I could not start it from START\All Programs, until the next restart. Then WMP shut down all plug-ins because one was causing problems. The only new one is Nero's Fast CD Buring plugin.

I haven't tried setting Composer's default as the MS Wavetable or the Audigy Sw Synth. I'll do that now. If the crash occurs, perhpas I'll try the complete removal and see what a fresh installation from the CD with the card and the updates will do, or not do.

all best,
mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hello again,

Well, I'm sure it makes sense to the computer's brain, but seem quirky and arbitrary to me, but not only did the MS Wavetable and the Audigy Sw Synth play, but those listed in SBFM, also. I haven't tried WMP or the Creative player yet.

The only thing I did, just before giving up a few hours ago, was to enable those annoying Windows sounds (as I remembered when I got a thunk when I released a slider in the SB mixer). I enabled them as part of a troubleshooting test and forgot to disable them again.

The only problem is that midi playback again sounds like a very well used old record, in terms of the pops, not the instrument sound. I have tried enabling/disabling/adjusting the graphic equalizer, EAX effects, etc., but can't get rid of them. Again, these pops are ONLY in midi playback, not wav or mp3.

all best,
mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark and . . .

Well, a restart took care of the playing for more than a few seconds before total freeze. Since then I have uninstalled Windows Media Connect from the computer as well as removing Nero Fast CD Burner as a WMP plugin since I can't find how to uninstall just that. The midi playback worked with pops after both of those moves...until restarting.

I installed the Creative Media Source update and again midi played in Composer, WMP and Creative Media Player, with pops and until restarting.

I suppose that restarting seems to work the opposite of the way one might expect it to should tell me something, but I can't put my finger on what.

A complete wipe of anything from Creative (and maybe Nero, too), followed by reinstallation seems the next step, unless I can think of something better. There is one thing: the legacy audio drivers have Total Recorder as the playback driver for midi, but the only reference to this I can find is in Device Manager/Sounds, and there seems to be no option to change this. (I have changed Total Recorder to use SB Audigy 2 drivers, and TR still records fine).

It is not that the sound card won't work on the old Dell I have. I tried line in and my tape/cd player produces sounds I've never heard from its woofer or tweeters before--as if a baffle had been removed from in front of the orchestra. And wav and mp3 play excellently (and without the pops) in WMP and CMP.

It's just midi. Sigh....

If anybody can suggest what is eluding me about the restart killing any but a few seconds or midi playback before a crash, I'll try any idea at this point.

best,
mgj

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy MG,

Well, this may seem a silly question, and perhaps you've answered it above (but I didn't see it directly), but have you checked out the Advanced Properties in your Control Panel/Sounds and Audio/Sounds and Audio Properties/Audio tab? See the picture below for what this looks like on my machine:

http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/27735.jpg

http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/27736.jpg


I know you said that it's a MIDI only problem, but perhaps these parameters affect MIDI playback differently than other audio - I honestly don't know, but I offer it as yet another "something to check" at this point.

I'm stumped by this one, MG. I haven't experienced the problems that you're describing, so I don't have any solutions that have worked for me to offer.

Have you tried checking out the Creative forums? You can go here http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs?region=CLI to the home page, and there are a couple of headings that may be of interest to you.

Good luck with this - you've had an interesting experience so far with the sound card issue. By the end, you'll be the guru of the forum!

ttfn,
Sherry

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello M.G.,

This question is probably answered in your posts above: Does this problem happen only when you're using sound fonts?

Cheers
-- Mark

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Sherry and Mark,

Sherry... Yes, been there a hundred times. Deeper into it, I found Audigy 2 listed in the midi tab (with a dozen drivers).

Mark... Yes, I have the Chaos bank loaded. I thought of that, but didn't try unloading (YET) because it should work all right. I'm not sure which bank is included as the default. I may have to wipe and reinstall to find that out.

best,
mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi again,

As a postscript: the only soundfont bank I could find in Win\Sys32\drivers is a 2MB job with Rev++ as part of the name. It looks exactly like the one that was default with the SB Live! retail card that I tried and found with only one synth. I've loaded it and will try actually playing something when I can close all the software I use during the day (it might really be a long scan when I turn the computer on again if I had to use the button with all this loaded).

While I'm hopeful that using Chaos is the cause of the midi problem, the last two crashes occured when the dialog saying I requested information from "go.microsoft.com" popped up with the dial or cancel option. Since I never requested anything that I know of from this URL, I'm trying to find out how to get rid of that now, though I can't see what it might have to do with midi playback using either soundfonts or GM.

all best,
mgj

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy MG,

In answering Mark's question above, you mentioned that you have the Chaos soundfont loaded. Using your Soundfont Manager, how much memory do you have in your system, and how much do you have allocated to loading fonts in your sound card? Also, you may want to try switching between static and dynamic cache - depending on how much memory your system has, and how fast your cpu is, you may need to adjust your settings.

Here's a picture of what it looks like:

http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/27739.jpg

Crossing my fingers for you...
Sherry

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Sherry,

Thanks. I hadn't thought of allocating too much memory. I had about 137MB, the same as for the old OEM card. That had only the static cache, but I have set the new one to dynamic. Only thing is, every time I look, it's reverted to static. I thought I could set the number fairly high, and the dynamic cache would take care of the actual allocation. Guess not. I have the number that high because each synth can be assigned its own bank and a couple of large ones would take about 100MB. But I will lower the number a lot for the later-this-afternoon trial.

I found with the old card that if I wanted to replace a bank, I had to have more than double the memory of the currently loaded bank and the one I wanted to replace it with. Odd, and maybe SB has fixed this by the time of Audigy.

best,
mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi all,

Same results, up popped the dialog box and the computer was iced to a one-note buzz. Playing a wave file does not crash the computer when that dialog pops up. Quite apart from the midi problem, I am getting very disgusted with Microsoft for not making it apparent how to turn off that pop up everytime WMP starts up. I've carefully unchecked anything and everything that even hints at the internet, to no avail.

Still looking like a wipe, registry search and delete operation, then a reinstall.

best,
mgj

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy MG,

This is just a stinker of a problem...

Did you peruse the Creative forum? The Audigy sound card discussion starts at http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs?region=CLI , and it looked like a couple of the topics might be headed in the same direction, though I didn't look closely.

Also, just a note on the registry bit, I use a software program called Registry Mechanic, and I let it do a registry scan and clean up every time I start my machine. It has kept me going quite well. When I first got it, my machine had slowed noticeably, and I had some "issues" with some software running properly. I ran RM the first time, and had something like 800 (yes, eighthundred) errors that needed repairing. Fixed them, and all the problems disappeared, and my machine picked up speed. I highly recommend it. You can get a trial version which does a good bit, but doesn't do deep registry scans. I think it cost $30 last year when I got it.

ttfn,
Sherry

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Sherry,

Yes, I went through both the forums and the knowledge base and found nothing exactly like the problem I was having. That is why I contacted support by email. They answered in just over a business day--a quite detailed answer, I must say. I am to do a clean sweep uninstal in accord with an article in the knowledge base--one which I copied into Metapad, suspecting that I might need it later. I need to shut down Avast Anti Virus, load no services at start up, etc., and do the installation in that state. What is going to happen, since I got the plug and play config. error the first time I installed both this and Nero, I don't know. But once installed, if there are still problems with midi playback (or any other), he wants me to move the card to a different PCI slot to force Windows to juggle the resources. He did seem anxious to hear back from me. I dont' know if that makes me optimistic, or not.

My registry cleaner is called RegSeeker. You can either have it find problem entries and use its broom or can have it search the registry and present you with a list of finds, including whether the entry is obsolete, does not point to a file, etc. This is slow, but you can at least double check on what it proposes to delete. RegSeeker has the virtue of being free, too http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif. So far it has served well, but I haven't used it for some time now http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/sad.gif.

In case anyone should have a sound card problem, the uninstall url that I was sent is:

http://us.creative.com/support/kb/article.asp?l=3&sid=1712

Well, it's too rainy to go to the beach, and a degree too warm to ice skate, so I might was well get to it... Hope to see y'all later.

best,
mgj

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy MG,

I've got my fingers crossed for you, though I'll have to undo them a time or two as I'm currently wrapping packages to be mailed out (yeah, I've been a slug this year.)

At about 12:37 a.m. you said:
Well, it's too rainy to go to the beach, and a degree too warm to ice skate, so I might was well get to it... Hope to see y'all later.

Sherry replies:
Not to mention a bit dark out http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif We've got about 9+ inches of snow here, though, so it makes it a lot lighter. You might have got a bit of that fluff, too, eh?

Here's hoping your reinstall is successful!
Sherry

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Sherry,

I'm doing a dry run-through, to make sure that each click produces what they say it will. So far, so good. I'm about to do these:

3. Please make sure you have applied all motherboard and BIOS updates.

4. Please also ensure that you have applied the latest Windows XP
Service Pack updates.

Installed the latest automatic updates today. I think there might be some BIOS updates listed at Dell, but I'm wary of doing those. I did the one that was sent with the Windows XP upgrade package Dell sent, so I might leave it at that.

It sure sounds like I will get EVERYTHING Creative uninstalled, and I may not have before.

There is still a little snow on the ground, but the rain has turned it to patches of ice. It's hard as glass, at least, but still makes the back yard white--the deer that visit my wifes flower beds at night are clearly visible.

Well, it's going to be a long night, but successful I hope. I was going to try doing a setting of a carol, but have lost three days on that.

Enjoy the snowcream http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif Sounds like you have enough snow for gallons...
mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Good morning all,

Well, the chronicle isn't ended. I did all the wiping and installing and everything worked except midi playing, although it did go on longer before the crash and the inability of Creative things to load from shortcuts.

Maybe due to an error message when the installation was 95%done and it was updating windows drivers: it was unable to locate component--The app failed to start because Plx.core.plx was not found.

So, I re-enabled normal start up, restarted and did the "repair" installation. Now everything loads upon click, so everything works, except you know what, to paraphrase Harry Potter.

Later, after the daily programs are done with, I'll do the "just in case the sweep and install doesn't work" solution, which is to move the care to another PCI slot, so Windows differently allocates resources. If that doesn't work, who knows....

I have an idea (more an intuition) that my video card drivers might be causing a problem. There is an NVIDIA display driver and and NVIDIA win 2000/XP display drivers installed. Perhaps a result of upgrading from ME to XP, so perhaps they should both be there. But I suspect Windows would have generic drivers that would work okay if I uninstall the NVIDIA ones.

But I'll probably just write back to Creative and tell them what happened (and didn't) by following the instructions they sent, and see what they say. It looks like the music writing is pretty much done until they figure it out. (Though Composer crashes like everything else, I did enter a few individual notes without it crashing. Interesting that the first note took forever to appear and sound, but the next few entered normally. I said few because I don't know how many I could enter before the crash, if it happens--and if it does, of course I lose all I've entered.

Meanwhile, I am hoping that using the same PCI slot I took the OEM card out of will work magic...though the fact that it seems to be JUST the midi problem whispers to me that there is a setting somewhere that needs adjusted.

all best,
mgj

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello M.G.,

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

I have an idea (more an intuition) that my video card drivers might be causing a problem.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>I almost mentioned this earlier as a possible explanation of the problem. Some other users over the last couple of years have reported conflicts between video drivers and MIDI device drivers, that were resolved sometimes not with updating the MIDI drivers but with updating the video driver.

Cheers
-- Mark

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

A cheery good morning, Mark,

(he said, bravely attempting to wave away the fumes of frustration).

The Geforce MX drivers are still supported. I have 56.16, for 2001. I had to scroll quite a bit to get to that one--I'm at the moment downloading 81.95.

Do you think I should just use add/remove to un-install and disable anti-virus to install the update? Or do the clean sweep of Audigy, also, and install both with all services disabled?

I've also re-enabled the unsupported device, having read that sound can be affected if any device is turned off. Some research revealed that this device--which I've wondered about--is for the Dell support button on the front of the case. I guess I'll follow the instructions for installing the XP driver. It was disabled when I upgraded from ME to XP.

You mentioned updating MIDI drivers. If that's possible, I might as well do that too. But I can't find any reference in Device Manager to MIDI other than in the Audigy properties under midi devices and instruments.

While on the subject of Device Manager, there is an entry, Legacy Audio Drivers, under Sound and Video Game Control. The properties for this one list Total Recorder under Audio Devices, Mixer Devices, and Creative WDM under Line Input Devices. I wonder if this could cause some kind of conflict but have been unable to find any way to make changes, other than check "do not map through this device". I've changed the settings in Total Recorder to use Audigy for all recording and playback, and MIDI playback offers only the same choices Composer does.

There are a few differences that came out of the five hours, or maybe six, I spent at it last night. Midi sometimes plays for a couple of minutes before the crash, and the tone that persists is more like a clarinet playing a bit above it's high G. Also, after about 20 minutes of playing a Wav file, I started to enlarge the media player on screen, and that crashed, too.

Any advice that might occur to you, I would be glad to hear. If I can stay awake, I'll switch PCI slots for the card and install the NVIDIA update (and Audigy, if that seems advisable) late this afternoon.

all best,
mgj

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello M.G.,

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Do you think I should just use add/remove to un-install and disable anti-virus to install the update? Or do the clean sweep of Audigy, also, and install both with all services disabled?<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>No harm will be done by trying these things (other than perhaps wasting time), and it might help.

It's important to narrow down the circumstances as precisely as possible as to when a problem happens and when it doesn't. For example, can you say with confidence, "This problem happens only when I'm using sound fonts, and never when I'm not using sound fonts"? If so, that is a very important piece of information. I believe you already briefly answered this question as "yes" when I originally asked it.

If the problem really is isolated to sound font usage on your Audigy card, then the problem is to further isolate the problem within the context of using sound fonts with your Audigy sound card. How well one can further isolate a problem depends on one knowledge in the area. Good places to further isolate a problem are ones that are easy to test and seem to have some promise of providing using information depending on the results of the test.

A first test that comes to mind is whether MidiNotate itself might be the culprit. Save your work as a MIDI file. Download a trial version of some other MIDI software. Assign the tracks to the same sound font device and instruments. See if the same problem shows up in that other software. I hope it does, so MidiNotate won't be the blame; but we should know whether this problem is isolated also to MidiNotate and not just any MIDI software.

Another test that comes to mind is to explore where your system doesn't have enough memory to hold the sound fonts. Sherry has already touched on this. There are some different tests you can do. Try loading such one _small_ sound font and playing just it. Does the problem still happen? If not, this suggests that maybe memory is an issue. Use the Windows Task Manager to monitor memory utilitization on your computer. If it's max'ed out while you're playing sound fonts, that's really likely the problem, which you can solve by installing more memory on your PC. A complimentary memory test here is to run other apps that use a lot of memory, to see whether that increases the problem.

You might be unfortunate and find that you cannot further isolate the problem. If you can, though, you'll have a lot better chance of solving the problem.

Cheers
-- Mark

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark,

If you mean soundfonts, as opposed to the default soundbank in Audigy, the answer is apparently, no; it happens playing ANY midi file, including those that use only GM instruments.

I don't think Composer is the problem because I've tried playing midi with many other applications. But I will do the more specific test you suggest. I still have the first composition program I ever used, which uses numbers instead of notes (it was meant mostly for creating ring-tones). I'll play one of the little things I did in that.

Perhaps, if installing the updated Geforce drivers and moving the card to a different PCI slot doesn't solve it, memory could be the culprit. I will do some testing later. I just monitered usage with software I have going, and there is not a big drain.

Getting anxious for 4 PM, so I can get at this stuff again.

BTW, I ran Dell's computer check and the only problem found was way to many files in Temp directories. It did tell me, if nothing else of use, that I have the latest BIOS upgrade. That was a flash about a non-flash that I was glad to get!

best,
mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark,

Same old same old. Before opening the computer, I did test midi playback in that old program--no difference in the result from that in any other program.

If it were any, I'd suspect NERO media player. But if it's not open, I don't see how it could be at fault.

Also looked at memory usage for the brief time before the crash--about the same as for wav playback, and below available, though physical memory may have been a bit above, but was during wav play, if so.

The only thing in can think of is to reinstall WMP and Composer, which doesn't seem to make much sense.

I'm a bit ideaed out.

best,
mgj

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello M.G.,

Well, at least we've ruled out that MidiNotate is the blame.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Also looked at memory usage for the brief time before the crash--about the same as for wav playback, and below available, though physical memory may have been a bit above, but was during wav play, if so.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Are you saying that your system is using virtual memory because available physical memory has been exceeded? If so, we may be zeroing in on the problem.

Cheers
-- Mark

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark,

Unfortunately, since then I have kept the system information window of Process Explorer open as I used various programs to play files. I never saw physical memory dip below about 41,000. The figures under Physical Memory stay in the same range no matter what is going on. Available about 40,000 to 72,000 and System Cache between about 70,000 and 125,000. Under Paging, Page Fault Delta can swing from around 400 up to 5,000 rapidly sometimes (without a crash). Under CPU and I/O, Context Switch Delta sometimes has big swings, too (without a crash). I had two crashes while watching the Sys Info window, and when the crash happened, the "locked up" figures had no spikes. I spent the better part of an hour watching these figures, and never saw physical memory go below 40,000.

My system is well within the requirements Creative gives, and virtually all of the crashes I've had come with little else in the way of applications active.

Probably, display drivers can be ruled out. After I un-installed Geforce MX, I used Windows to adjust the screen resolution and tried playing a midi file in WMP, and the crash occurred just as quickly as when Geforce was installed.

I had forgot that Magic Score was still installed, since I had made midis of everything and copied them to Songs. But I tried that. It makes but only plays it's .sfd format and only one midi device using whatever soundbank is loaded can be used for all instruments. There was no crash. I did get one in Composer, playing a .not file, so I did further testing, playing a section of my first symphony, fourth movement, since I just started to edit that in Composer, so there is not a lot of difference. I used a section when the orchestra plays the first theme as a kind of hymn and most instruments are playing 3 note chords. First I used the MS Wavetable Synth. No problem in either Magic Score or Composer. Then I used the SB Synth A. Again to problems with the playing. Except, in both there were quite a few pops. (There goes the idea of ignoring midi, simply using .not, and making mp3's.)

I am beginning to think that perhaps the card is physically defective and that depresses me enormously--I'll hear back from Creative on Wed, probably, and there will surely be other things they'll want me to try. Then after who know how many weeks of such back and forth, maybe they will replace the card. Depressing prospect.

Anyhow, with nothing else I can do, I'm going to try the grand sweep and re-install again, with the sound card in the new slot.

I'll do any tests you might think of.

best,
mgj

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello M.G.,

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

(Magic Score) plays ... only one midi device using whatever soundbank is loaded... There was no crash.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Please try that same test with Composer, that is, using only one MIDI device (the Creative sound font device) and one soundback.

Cheers
-- Mark

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello M.G.,

Well, at least we've ruled out that MidiNotate is the blame.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Also looked at memory usage for the brief time before the crash--about the same as for wav playback, and below available, though physical memory may have been a bit above, but was during wav play, if so.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Are you saying that your system is using virtual memory because available physical memory has been exceeded? If so, we may be zeroing in on the problem.

Cheers
-- Mark

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark,

I think I have solved the crime and tracked the criminal to his lair, but the question now is what to do with him.

After doing the sweep and a squeaky clean installation, and after installing the web updates that I downloaded through auto-update, I listened for the better part of an hour to some wav files, and while they played I made changes with the mixer, the volume slider in the tray, as well as opening and applying EAX effects. I almost believed that midi was going to work this time.

Since I had got some crashes playing .not and Magic Score's .sfd files, I decided to test out those first. I had not kept track, but was thinking that MS GS Wavetable Synth did not crash as readily as SB Synth A. So I tried this.

Contorl Panel/Sounds/Audio Midi playbackk default set to SB Sw Synth (which sounds about like MS Wavetable).

Played "Christmas" Symphony 1st movement (all GM in the .sfd and.not files, both) in Magic Score .sfd. It's device set to Sw Synth. Let it play for several minutes. Playback and sound without incident. Stopped playback and changed device to SB Synth A. Crash happened within 10 seconds.

Played "Christmas" Symphony 1st movement in Composer .not, with all staves set to Sw Synth. Everything A OK, until at the same point in the score, I set all staves to SB Synth B. Crash in under 10 seconds.

Physical memory usage in Process Explorer showed 110,000 available while the wave played in WMP.
During the sfd. playback Magic Score showed about 35,000 available and in Composer about 70,000 available. There was no decrease in physical memory available leading up to the crash.
During the wav playing, Thunderbird mail was open and I was connected to the Net. During .sfd and .not playback, the respective programs were the only ones open.

The next stage of the test was as follows.

After the last crash, I set the system default for midi to SB Synth A, which causes crashes in Magic Score and Composer.

Then I did playback exactly as above down to the measure where I changed from Sw to Synth A or B. The results were exactly the same. Even though the system default for midi was Synth A, the crash did not happen until I changed the program from Sw to Synth A or B.

Memory usage was the only difference. Magic score had 117,000 available and Composer started at 27,000 available and climed to 57,000 available at the time I made the change Synth B.

Unless there was a huge spike in memory usage at the crash that didn't register in Process Explorer, I think insufficient memory can be ruled out.

I will test further, using .mid files this time and WMP and Creative's Media Player, but if the results are similar or different, the conclusion that Synth A and B cause crashes on my system playing .not files, while SB Sw Synth does not (at least in the time I let the files play before making the change) is inescapable.

Whether there is a solution in my system settings or not, I don't know. Perhaps Creative needs to do a midi driver update (the version is 5.1, I believe). Perhaps the card itself is physically defective.

If you can think of anything I can add to the tests, I will sure try that.

It's kind of a pyrric victory to have identified and caught the dastardly crook; I have no idea what to do with him.

all best,
mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark,

Ha! Jinx ya owe ma a coke, as we said 50 years ago; or was it, great minds think alike.

I think what you wanted was included in the tests I just detailed. The tests before the sweep/install/web up-date in Magic Score were using Sw Synth and MS Wavetable, so it was premature to say that the crash didn't happen with any device, as the lasts tests showed.

Trying to analyze just why MS Wavetable sounds so bad, I had let that play for nearly the whole last movement (the 1st symphony) that time, which has a lot of goodies like claves, wood block, chinese cymbals, etc. That is where I got the idea that maybe MS Wavetable would not crash either an sfd or not file--a theory the tests support.

I appear to have picked up some spyware, so I am going to do my usual Sat afternoon maintenance and a system virus scan. Then, I will further test, though I do not look forward to those long periods of using the on/off switch and file integrity checks.

BTW, I think it is a note velocity problem with MS Wavetable. It's just too **** LOUD, and reducing the note velocity by a factor of up to 50, depending on the instrument, seems to help a lot.

all best,
mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark,

I believe I have got the villain to confess. But first, I decided to continue the .sfd/.not tests, but with MS Wavetable set in Control Panel as the default midi playback device, then set the programs to MS WT, then Sw Synth, then SB Synth A or B.

The .sfd test went as those before, i.e., eveything okay until the switch to SB Synth B. One little difference--after about 10 seconds of freeze, it started again, only to crash almost immediately.

The .not test went the same, to a point. MS WT and Sw Synth played fine, but the crash occured while I was switching to SB Synth A, while "Assign device to all staves" was showing. Nothing was playing.

I think the reason might have been that after the crash, Windows loaded without the file integrity scan, for some reason.

Memory usage was about the same as the earlier tests--36% - 49% physical RAM free.

At this point, I decided to try a RAM cleaner, so got "Clean Ram" from Nonags. Very simple to use--run it and it does a cleaning when physical RAM gets down to 4MB. It made little difference, and in fact the next crash occured while it was cleaning. This was after I had rebooted normally and had swtiched to SB Synth A in Composer and told it to clean now, although there was 110MB free.

Frustrated, I started a process of uninstalling each program that has anything to do with sound. I had done Nero's Media Player, with no difference. I didn't re-install it because I doubt I will ever use it. Then I did Total Recorder, with no change in the results when I played anything using SB Synth A or B.

THE REST OF THE STORY...
I went to Creative forums to try again to find someone with the same problem, but couldn't. While there I downloaded the user manual and read the section of soundfont bank management. The previous software had only a static soundfont cache, which I had set to something over 134MB, since I was using a bank that was 62MB--it wouldn't allow you to change banks unless you had more memory than the combination of the bank you were removing and the one you were replacing it with.

So I opened SBFM and found a dynamic cache of 12MB, with the 4MB default bank loaded. More on a whim than anything else, I upped the memory alloted to 45MB and made the cache static (which reverted to dynamic apparently, after I'd closed SBFM).

With this setup, when I played the same .not I'd been using, I could switch all staves to SB Synth A and play the whole file. With some pops, but not crash. I experimented with raising the soundfont cache and changing it to static again. Each time I raised it, physical memory available went down, but the sound quaility improved.

So, it would seem the eons of nightmare are over, though I haven't yet tried to play a midi file. It would appear that it DID have something to do with memory, only soundfont memory allocated. By extension I suppose more RAM would help a lot, too. I am getting angrier the more I think about it that Creative couldn't have created a pop-up telling one that the soundfont bank cache should be increased/decreased.

Hopefully, I can get rid of the pops in otherwise very good sound by playing with the soundfont cache memory. Hopefuly, too, I can play midi files without crashes now, though as long as I can play .not files and reinstall total recorder to record them, I can get along.

all best,
mgj

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello M.G.,

It does sound like you have pinned down the problem to memory allocation for the SoundBlaster Font Manager.

Please keep us posted about your testing about how different memory allocation values affect the pop noises and crashes.

Please remind me, how much memory does your system have?

This was a painful experience you went through to pin down this problem with the SoundBlaster Font Manager. Perhaps one consolation here is that we'll write a summary of the soundfont memory problem and solution, so that others can benefit from what you learned.

Cheers
-- Mark

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark,

I have 256MB, twice the minimum, so I was rather surprised at the problem. I will be answering Creative tonight, as they asked me to let them know if their solution and the back up solution, in case the first didn't work. Also have Pentium IV, while minimum is two.

I found that the .not files played back and could be edited normally with the SF memory set at 55MB, using the default 4MB bank, which is shown as loaded for both Synth A and B, but I'm assuming they use the same one, so there are not eight MB loaded.

When I tried to use a 28MB bank for a and the default for B, I could not set the SF memory high enough to prevent--you know what. Yep, crashes, and even wav and mp3 crashes.

So the saga continues. Won't even get started on the mess I got into all day, trying to get rid of all Audigy 2 so I could install the old card. Wound up having to install all components individually because the installation disk wouldn't give me a complete install option. It was great fun.

all best,
mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark,

It's been a long night, day and night again. You may have been right a bout "soundfonts" being involved, if you mean any bank other than what is there when you open SFBM for the first time. I began to get crashes again after loading a bank with quite a number of instruments I like better than GM ones. It is about 29MB. It did not matter what I set the SBFM memory allocation to, anywhere from 45MB to 175MB, the upper limit.

Worse, I re-loaded the default bank. At least, since when I clicked on replace to load the 28MB bank, I was in Win Sys32/Drivers. So I loaded the 4MB bank I found there. It made no difference. Whatever I did with memory allocation, I got a crash, with .not, with midi, with mp3, with wav files, in whatever program I used to play them.

I decided that I would uninstall and reinstall again. For a reason I still don't kow, however, the procedure didn't work this time, possibly because Creative Media Source wasn't in add/remove? Or maybe because I was too punchy and did something out of order. Anyhow, I got into a situation where the uninstaller would get to 58% then tell me that some "subscribers could not be invoked" and that the process would terminate and close. I cleaned the registry after deleting the relevant directories by hand. No the installer gave me not complete install option and when I tried repair or modify, I was informed of those shadowy "subscribers" again. (What kinds of idiots think such undefined terms are going to make any sense to the average user?)

To make a very long story short, I finally seem to have got what I needed zapped, using a program called Windows Uninstall Cleaner, which came from I have no idea where, to get rid of Media Source and SB Audigy, which I had installed from the web driver update, and the WDM drivers, for which there is a separate install/uninstall program on the Creative installation disk.

I still couldn't use this disk to install, but I apparently got enough on there to be able to install the mixer, graphic eq, eax, etc., etc., by going to their directories and using the setup.exe I found in each.
This was after installing the Windows Driver web update. Last, I got and installed everything on the auto-update page. I figured that perhaps the more I had on there, the more chance I could get everything uninstalled, yet leaving those "subscribers" lurking somewhere in a Windows sub-directory or the registry, or wherever they ply their trade. Due to a mistaken click, I have older drivers (from the installation CD) there were on the machine before, unless they were included with the web update.

Ready to zap everything and get the old and unsatisfactory, but non-crashng card back in place, I gave it one last fling--I had to set enable the services and restart, anyhow.

I have restarted since then, but I have also been playing wav, mp3 files, a CD of the "Archduke" Trio, the midi file of the "Chrismas" Symphony (of which I recorded as I played it, the 4th movement). I have done nothing in SFBM, other than set the memory allocation to 30MB, leaving dynamic cache as the option.

I do have noise--like static, with usually wide, ir-regular spaces between the pops. I am a little afraid of playing with SFBM. Who wants another nightmare so soon after waking up? And I'm very much afraid to trying any soundfonts other than those there now, even if so far, I have been able to play anything, including midi files, with Thunderbird open and of course this browser. I will wait until doing anything more until I get the next response from Creative.

I sure hope nobody else has anything like this, and am surprised that I couldn't find anything described in exactly the same way on the Creative forum. Most people, though, might simply write their tech support, as I did. It will be very interesting to hear what they have to say this time.

best,
mgj

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy MG,

I've been a bit out of the loop lately - we had our Christmas music program at church last night, though, so I'm a bit more sane now http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

All this talk of physical memory brings a vague recollection from the mist...

When I was looking at getting my new machine a couple of years ago, and looking around for soundfont info, I remember somewhere reading that due to memory requirements of Windows XP, added to the memory requirements of the SB Audigy cards using soundfonts, that people who were using soundfonts recommended having at least 512 Mb of physical memory. So when I ordered my machine, that's what I ordered it with (256 Mb was the new "standard issue" at that time). I've never had any basic issues with popping and clicking with MIDI playback using soundfonts on my SB Audigy 2. I've since upgraded my memory to 1.5 Gb because of GPO, and I can have a boat load of soundfonts loaded and running.

I know you said you've checked the memory usage, and it appears to be safe, but I just really wonder if there are other "issues" involved with the memory that aren't necessarily displayed by the Windows utility. Perhaps others who are more computer proficient than myself could answer that one.

I *think* I may have seen the bit of advice about the amount of memory on the PG Music forum - that's where I first found out about soundfonts. I don't have a clue where it would be on the forum, though, because it's been so long ago. You could probably search their forum using "soundfonts, memory" or some such if you're so inclined.

It will also be intriguing to hear what the Creative folk have to say.

ttfn,
Sherry

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark and Sherry,

Thanks, Sherry, that's another place to look. I sincerely hope it's not more physical ram I need since 1. I have more than Creative requires. Probably the recommended amount, since it's twice the required figure. 2. For about twice what Dell wants to bring it up to 512MB (over $300), I could get a whole computer with that much, twice my HD size, a faster processor, and a flat panel display.

Mark, not only, as I described above, was everything working fine last night, except for the pops, but I had plenty of memory to do other things--a browser and mail program were open. I went on to do some editing in Composer, and things were working faster there. Don't know what that means, unfortunately.

I'm back to square one, now, with instant crashes. The only thing I did was try to load Acoustica (and somewhat enhanced Audacity). It was working fine before all this. But I got a message that it had to close with a Close and a Debug button and place to click to see what the error report would include. I tried all three. Nothing worked, so I un-installed and re-installed. Got the reg key entry page, entered it and it tried to load. The splash screen was behind the must close message. Oh, and error reporting somehow got disabled--a passing cosmic ray, no doubt. I set it on manual because I've never had to set it before, and thought I'd try that first. Grrrr.

Tried playing the same things I had played before, and crash, crash, crash. Uninstalled Acoustica, but crash, crash, crash.

SBFM was left as I had set it.

The computer is still responding faster than ever.

Perhaps SBFM memeory allocation was just another sympton?

all best,
mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Sherry and Mark,

I just found this in SBFM HELP. It seems pertinent, but I'm not exactly sure how because it doesn't relaly explain why the crashes with the default 4MB bank loaded. I'm in deep enough now. I wonder if this is worth a try? Any comments?

best,
mgj

For large banks in Windows 2000/XP:

When trying to load a large SoundFont bank, some users may encounter an error message. Click the OK button.

When loading a large bank, you will need to modify your operating system's registry settings to alter the set memory limit. This can, however, alter your operating system's performance. Remember to make a copy of your system's registry settings before proceeding.

Using Windows Explorer, search and locate the Windows folder.

Double-click the regedit.exe file. The Registry Editor window appears.

On the left panel, search and locate the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Session Manager\Memory Management\ folder.

On the right panel, double-click the PagedPoolSize file. The Edit DWORD Value dialog box appears.

In the Value data: box, type 0xFFFFFFFF, and then click the OK button.

Restart your computer.

Launch Creative SoundFont Bank Manager, and then click the Bank button .
The Configure Bank dialog box appears.

Click the Select Bank drop-down button , and select a bank location to configure.

Click the Load button to add a SoundFont bank to an empty or occupied location.

If the desired space already contains a bank, and you want to load a new bank in its place, highlight the bank and click the Replace button .

If you want to remove a bank, highlight the bank and click the Remove button

Click the OK button to finish configuring your banks.

Notes

Do not alter your operating system's registry settings unless you need to load a large bank.
If you still cannot load a large bank after altering your system's registry setting, you may need to increase the SoundFont Cache memory limit. From the main interface, click the Midi Devices button . The MIDI Devices Option dialog box appears. Drag the SoundFont Cache slider to the right to increase the SoundFont Cache memory limit.
Alternatively, increase your system's memory by adding more RAM.

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello M.G.,

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

"When loading a large bank, you will need to modify your operating system's registry settings to alter the set memory limit. This can, however, alter your operating system's performance. Remember to make a copy of your system's registry settings before proceeding."<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>I think this warning is a good clue that you might want not to venture into this.

Taking a step back from all of this, I overall have the impression that you have spent 10s of hours struggling with various problems, installing and uninstalling this and that, changing params here and there. Sometimes this kind of activity leads to success. A lot of times this kind of messing around with a system can just make the system worse and worse. I've seen this happen to so many systems. I used to do it to my own systems to the point that my system got so messed up that I finally have to clean up my own mess by reformatting the hard drive, re-installed Windows, and then re-installed everything else. I've done that about a half dozen times in my life-time. My daughter's boy friend does this every couple of weeks, for heaven knows what reasons other than that he just enjoys doing this sort of thing. I don't enjoy it. So, instead, I avoid as much as possible messing around with my system unless I really have a good reason to, and unless I know what I'm doing, and am prepared to back out my changes.

I suspect that your system might be "ill". I'm hesitant to recommend this, because it's so much work, but you might want to consider just starting all over. Save all of your data files (such as MidiNotate .not files!) Reformat your hard drive, and start all over with a clean system. It can do wonders.

Or get a new system, and transfer your data files over to it.

Cheers
-- Mark

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

P.S. The above suggestion for starting with a new system is rather drastic advice. Sherry and others can probably offer more economical solutions (in terms of labor or dollars).

Cheers
-- Mark

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Mark,

PS to the above. Does it sound to you as if should I do as much of an un-install of the sound card as Windows will do (remember it was stopping short of doing the whole thing) and delete the registry key support suggests, that I would be clean enough to put my old Live Value Dell version card back in? That would be the quickest way to get anything done, perhaps....and it would give me leisure to contemplate what to do next re the new card.

best....

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark,

Let me bounce this off you . . .

The driver Creative's support guy directed me to is from 2003, somewhat later than the one on the installation disk, I think. The one I got off the web is dated just a month ago.

Could it be that the 2003 update corrects the problem with midi, that I had when I installed the card first, and that the correction is not included in last month's update; further that the 2003 update needs to be there for the current update to function properly, at least as regards midi?

Would this be a reasonable supposition?

For the moment, I have set the default for midi in control panel to Creative's Sw Synth--a very slight improvement over MS Wavetable. Who knows, after long enough, and if I go to no concert or listen to no CD, I might start thinking that the instrumental timbre is a better representation of the real ones and compose with the Sw Synth sounds in mind. (I don't usually laugh aloud when I'm all along, but I just did--had to.)

The fact that Acoustic support asked me to uninstall 3.3 and reinstall 3.2 as a fix for a problem others have reported, suggests that there is a problem with the card's software and IT is making my system sick. So I would guess a wipe and clean install of Windows might well not resolve the issue. Would that be a reasonable assumption?

(Lordie, with the Sw Synth the upper registers of the piano don't sound like MS Wavetable's xylophone. The sound isn't that of a piano, but at least it's an improvement. . . At least I'm listening to a midi file and it has not crashed the computer. Oddly enough, too, my computer is working faster again with that control panel change--at least, it seems odd to me that a change in default midi playback could do that.)

all best,
mgj

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello M.G.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Could it be that the 2003 update corrects the problem with midi, that I had when I installed the card first, and that the correction is not included in last month's update; further that the 2003 update needs to be there for the current update to function properly, at least as regards midi?

Would this be a reasonable supposition?<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>It's worth a try, but I wouldn't guess a high probability of success. Creative's driver download page should point you to the best driver for a given combination of (1) the model of SB card you are using and (2) the version of Windows you are using. That's your best bet.

Cheers
-- Mark

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark,

Thanks. You confirm what I suspected. I remember (or think I do) that when I upgraded to XP SP2, I read that you don't need to install SP1 first. The same should hold true for the SB 2005 and 2003 drivers.

I'll give the techie's directions a try, on the might be worth it basis. If that doesn't work (and this isn't some intermediate step in a process he's unveiling step by step) I will try to get back to the OEM card, which still has the two synths, but little else to recommend it.

best,
mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark, Sherry,

To keep this chronicle up to date--

The Creative techie who answered this time said to delete the entire Creative directory as long as I have no other Creative products, before installing the 2003 HD EAX driver.

Interestingly, this step IS part of a process, which this techie detailed further. The next steps include, going into setup and disabling the onboard sound chipset, checking for sharing of IRQ numbers (SB does share 11 with the Linksys ethernet network card and Intel(r) 82801BA/BAM USB Universal Host Controller), and running a Creative system diagonist tool and sending the results as a text file.

It strikes me that the further steps might be those that should be performed first, but I will do things in the order specified, I guess. I am going to do a test now, however: I am going to temporarily diable the network and see if that helps.

best,
mgj

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy MG,

Wow! You're in way beyond anything I've ever had to do. I'm learning new things here. Thanks for keeping us posted, and I certainly hope you get this bugger figured out soon!

ttfn,
Sherry

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Sherry,

Yep, it's a heck of an adventure for one whose knowledge is pinched enough that yesterday didn't even know what IRQ meant. Windows Help and Support says you shouldn't change them, else you might not be able to install anything else, but I noticed that there were some vacant numbers in the list--or maybe they just don't exist to be filled. . . yep, it's like looking for your glasses in a blackout.

This is something that anyone installing a new sound card might get, or so the impression I'm getting from Creative support goes. I'm afraid it's going to take a rather long time since, possibly because of location?, it takes two days per message to and from Creative; however, I have to assume they know how to fix the problem. Apparently there is a file that either exists somewhere in the Creative directory that one can download and run that diagnoses the system, that you can save as a text file, send to Creative, and will tell them what they need to know to give directions for a fix. I do rather wonder why they didn't just have me do this first.

I miss being able to write music and there is some music that looks interesting, recently posted, that I would like to hear when it is not made to sound by MS Wavetable Synth like the hurdy-gurdy man is going through the village with the monkey leading a cow with a bell around its neck. I could use MSWT to compose, I guess, but getting the best sound out of that (which would be relatively bad) would result in an enormous amount of editing when the A and B Synths are available.

Oh, yes, I mentined that I was going to try disabling the network (Linksys adapter), since it is one of the devices on the same IRQ number as SB. I did. Midi worked for about an hour and a half, though there was still some (but not frequent, for once) static. Perhaps that was coming from the Intel Universal USB host controller, or whatever it's called.

So, there is hope.

best,
mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi all,

Here is the latest from Creative:

Thanks for the reply. It looks like you are having an IRQ conflict. The
sound card should be having it's own IRQ number.

Below are some steps to check and change the IRQ of the device.

CHECKING AND CHANGING THE IRQ OF YOUR CARD
1. Go to Start > Control Panel > System > Hardware
2. Click on the Device Manager button to open up Device Manager
3. Go to View > Resources by type
4. Open up the IRQ section
5. Find the main listing for the card
6. Check to see what IRQ the card is listed on.
7. Check to see what other devices are listed on the same IRQ number
8. Shut down Windows
9. Power off computer
10. Switch the slot of your card
11. Boot the system, and reinstall the drivers for the card.
12. Repeat steps 1 - 5 to check the current IRQ for the card.
13. Note the IRQ listed now. Has it changed?
14. Check to see what other devices are listed on the same IRQ
15. If the IRQ has not changed, or it is sharing with another device, we
may need to switch slots again. It also might be necessary to reserve
or assign resources in your motherboard BIOS.

Do reply back to me if you are still having problems with any error
messages prompted. Thanks.

For faster service please reply with previous correspondence when
replying to this email.

I have one more slot left, so I'll try that next. Sweeping and re-installing the drivers may be a problem, since the installation CD stopped zapping or installing. But I'll try doing the last step they specified, i.e., deleting the Creative directory and the registry key, then installing the 2003 drivers.

But I have the feeling, having switched slots already, that it "might be necessary to reserve or assign resources" in the motherboard BIOS. This kind of intimidates me.

If I go silent, it's probably that the computer no longer works at all.

best,
mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Mark and all,

Can you (can anyone) tell me how to move my sound card from IRQ 3 to IRQ 6 so that is sharing with the floppy disk controller. I very seldom use floppies, so could leave it disabled most of the time. Looks like it's going to have to share with something. Actually, Windows Help tells me how, but the automatic box is grayed out in device manager/audigy/resources. That's the real problem.

best,
mgj

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello M.G.

Control Panel / System / Hardware / Device Manager / View menu / Resources by Connection / see listing of devices by IRQ / right-lick device / then...
(1) Properties / Resouurces to change IRQ
-- OR --
(2) Disable (if you want to try disabling a conflicting IRQ)

Cheers
-- Mark

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi,

The saga has not conclusion yet, but an interruption, which will be ultimately beneficial. I hope.

It seems that the techies ran out of ideas and suggested that a return for repair or replacement is in order. Whatever was tried (and I spent more than a week of long hours at it) the result was the same, i.e., all worked but the Synth A and Synth B. Apparently these are hardware synths, whereas MS Wavetable is a software synth. So perhaps the fault is in the card, itself.

For the present, I seem to have got the original SB Live Value configuration re-installed. It is a very stripped down version of Audigy, but it is better than an Audigy that doesn't work.

I await Fed Ex with a replacement (or repair).

Merry Christmas (late) and Happy New Year (on time).

mgj

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi,
Perhaps the conclusion has finally been reached. Fed Ex arrived and I installed. There was a defect in the card it appears; I played a whole symphonic movement using with Synth A set as the default and the computer didn't crash. I flashed the BIOS, anyhow, since it was an upgrade specifically for my model Dell that shipped after XP Sp2 and had an Audigy card installed.

The only glitch was a muffling in the strings (patch 49 in Composer), but that turned out to be the Musica Theoria strings, which sounded OK with the old card. Other strings work all right.

Hopefully, now I can stop thinking about setup instead of music.

all best,
mgj

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy M G,

This is good news indeed!

But we're still naming you "Audigy Soundcard Expert Extraordinaire" ;)

Enjoy making music! (which reminds me of a little project I need to get cracking on http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif )

ttfn,
Sherry

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

Hi Sherry,

Not an expert by any means, but pretty good at installing a card without defects.

I did learn a couple of things along the way. One just today. The reason the Musica Theoria strings sounded garbled--like a tape with a missing felt--appears to be that I had the MT bank in Synth A and the default Gm bank in Synth B, and both are used in the piece. I made them both MT and all sounds well.

Another one, which might be of more general interest is that in My Computer/Properties/Hardware/Device Manager/View, one can select show hidden devices. Then going to Sound and expanding it, any devices with grayed out icons are devices that don't exist, yet the drivers are loaded at each startup. Uninstalling these makes the computer work faster, and might help with performance, too.

all best,
mgj