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Dr Peter Kalve
12-21-2005, 05:14 PM
Wrote this this afternoon - just a bit of nonsense, but I think it is fun!

<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/attachment_icon.gifFanfare for a Jester
Fanfare.not (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Fanfare-27766.not) (40.4 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Mark Walsen (markwa)
12-22-2005, 05:26 PM
Hi Peter,

I really like this quirky short piece.

When I sit back and listen to it, the piece makes more sense than when I follow the score. I tried to figure out why. I think it is because the irregular meters you chose (eg, 7:8) don't seem to match the beats that I hear. Testing that theory, I tried moving the barlines around and changing/simplifying the meter to match what I heard. The result is the attached .not file. I'd be interested in knowing whether what you hear and had in mind is matches your original meters or whether it matches my reconstructed meters or perhaps something else.

It may be that because you entered the notes manually, without changing accents (note velocities), I'm not hearing the beats you hear. The only irregular meter I heard was the 5:8 at the end, which, by the way, is a fun way to wind up the short piece before a traditional cadence.

Well, the other irregular meter I heard was right at the beginning of the piece. There is a very interesting ambiguity at the beginning of the piece: The FH, Trombone and Tuba want to claim a regular meter on the first note of the piece; whereas the Trumpets want to claim a regular meter after what would be an 8th note upbeat. Given what comes in the measures that follow, I voted for the Trumpets' victory in establishing the meter, so that the lower brass take on a syncopated off-beat rhythm in the context of the regular meter, which is what establishes the rhythmic quirkiness of the piece right from the beginning.

In my opinion, a "prime number" numerator in a meter is appropriate when the beat pattern clearly mixes groups of 2's and 3's, as in your 3+2 = 5:8 meter at the end of the piece. However, just because a piece is highly rhythmic and syncopated doesn't meter that the meter is irregular. When there is syncopation, I think it helps the performer to _see_ the regular meter that provides the context of the syncopation, rather than for the syncopation to dictate irregular meters on a per-measure basis. The latter is just too difficult for a performer to read or for a conductor to conduct, again, in my opinion.

P.S. We've established in previous posts that we both enjoy the visual esthetics of a score. Perhaps you find the irregular meters to be more visually pleasing. I actually find the regular meters more visually pleasing if the impact on the beaming of notes is that the starts of beams land on the beats I think I'm hearing.

Your thoughts?

Cheers
-- Mark

Cheers
-- Mark

<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/attachment_icon.gif
Fanfare-Re-Metered-by-Mark.not (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Fanfare-Re-Metered-by-Mark-27770.not) (41.1 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Mark Walsen (markwa)
12-22-2005, 09:35 PM
Hello Peter,

I took a second shot at re-metering the piece by breaking down some of the 4:4 meters into 2:4 meters. The shorter 2:4 meters seems to better represent the driving force in this piece.

Cheers
-- Mark<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/attachment_icon.gif
Fanfare-Re-Metered-by-Mark-2nd-Attempt.not (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Fanfare-Re-Metered-by-Mark-2nd-Attempt-27774.not) (44.0 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Dr Peter Kalve
12-22-2005, 10:23 PM
I've been out and just got back in tonight. Looked at your two rewrites of the metres for the piece, and it is absolutely fascinating, Mark. It hadn't dawned on me that giving the first beat of the bar as an upbeat would result in a much clearer score in terms of easier visual presentation and performance. The 2:3 beat is there still, but it does make the piece so much easier to beat (even for me who wrote the thing!) that I think you are quite correct in re-transcribing it. It works a lot better that way. The other option, of course is for the conductor to act as if there was a silent upbeat before the start of the piece, but given that this makes less sense than the strong beat dropping on the first semi-quaver of the beat, I feel that your version of the meter worrks a lot better and is easier to beat and follow. And I'm so glad you liked the ending - I was rather pleased with it myself - all done in the best possible taste!

----Peter (with thanks)