Rock 'n' Roll

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry. I'm glad you have some good sax fonts. Mine is terrible. I slipped in a simple sax solo around the melody that may have been played by a kid back then ( so you wouldn't have to wait through 11 silent measures) It should be an octave higher, but my tenor sax in Microsoft Wavetable sounds like a soprano so I had to drop it down. You may have already written something better there, so you don't have to use mine. I just did it to fill in the empty space. I'm anxious to hear what you have done so far. Thanks again! Fred

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Sorry Sherry, I neglected to upload the solo. Fred<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/attachment_icon.gifSolo for Saxophone Rock
Saxophone Rock.not (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Saxophone_Rock-27045.not) (45.0 k)</td></tr></table></center>

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

Hoo-eee - this is fun http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I sat down with just the melody print out, and my guitar (acoustic Taylor 812) tonight and came up with a chord progression. This song "felt" right for me in E, so that's what I'm working with it in at present. Of course since it's your piece, you can put it in whatever key you want it http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif The progression goes E E7 A A7 B7 B7 (yes, two measures) E Eb3(little "twang" on the E)E. Pretty simple, straightforward blues/rock progression. I figured since you lost your little mama, it had to be some kind of blues, right? ;)

So, after I figured out what the chords might be (this is merely my interpretation, so get out the salt shaker ;) ), I tried playing around with Band in a Box, as I had a couple of stylistic ideas that I wanted to try out quickly. The one that pretty much fit the "feel" that I'm hearing in my head is called the Dr Jon Shuffle Rock, and I'm attaching a file below.

What I've done to it is to add an intro (which is just the whole chord progression only once through), then the first verse, chorus, then I made room for a 16 bar solo - it fit the progression a bit better, then the last verse, and I added in the chorus again. I banged out the rhythms for the lyrics, but haven't adjusted the pitches yet (and I don't think what I was singing in my head exactly matched what you had written out, but we can see how that all fits together).

I also added a track (currently blank http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif ) for the sax solo. I thought perhaps with the "band" there, it might provide a bit of inspiration for filling up those 16 bars. You may want to chop the piano out at that point, as I think it (and maybe the guitar, too) might be too much over a sax solo as they are now.

So, does this fit the "3 chords and a cloud of dust" feel? Of course since you started this, you can mess around with it to your heart's content http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif Or, if I'm just way off, you can of course toss it http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

BTW, I'm using the beta version of Pro, so I'm going to put both a .not file (which you'd have to use Pro or the Player for) and a mid file, if you're using Composer and want to work on it.

<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/attachment_icon.gifSax Rock Sherry 1
Saxophone rock Sherry.not (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Saxophone_rock_Sherry-27055.not) (281.6 k)</td></tr></table></center>

<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/attachment_icon.gifSax Rock Sherry 1
Saxophone rock Sherry.mid (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Saxophone_rock_Sherry-27056.mid) (31.6 k)</td></tr></table></center>

Off to beddy bye for me http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Sherry

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

I'm emailing you an mp3 of the above arrangement along with me singing vocal just for demonstration purposes http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif This is to let you hear the vocals as done "live" so my poor keyboard skills aren't in the way so much.

When you mess around with recording anything into it (such as that screaming sax solo ;) ) you'll want to be sure you have a device that doesn't have any latency to it, so that you'll hear what you're actually entering. And, as I mentioned before, the piano is pretty heavy in this rendition, so you may want to either tone it down or cut it out all together. Or you can play off of some of it for the sax solo. I only play whistle, so I'm not at all positive of the capabilities and nuances of good sax playing http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Anyway, mess around with it and let me know what you think. Also, the ending could use a good bit of work - the one that's on there now is pretty cheesy. And some variation to mix it up a bit more during the verses would be good too.

Another sort of rendition of it could be ala "Jail House Rock", where the chords are half-step down on the "4" preceding the "1" where they go to their "proper" places. I was playing around with that on my guitar, and it sounds like fun, too http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

So many arrangements, so little time .... ;)

I'll also try to get those soundfont demos done sometime soon. I took a quick listen to them using Vienna Sound Studio, and I couldn't find a good "growl" on any of them. They do vary somewhat in timbre and such. If you want, I can send you the zip/sfarc files of the fonts, and you can download Vienna, and mess around with it yourself since you would know much better than I what you're listening for in a sax sound. Just let me know if you do.

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

OH Man!!!!!!!, That's incredible!!. Believe it or not, it is just about exactly like I imagined it how would come out with you doing it. I was a little embarrassed when I sent the song up, but what you have done with it makes me actually like it. One little note however, I did not lose my little mama. I was not the person singing the song, I was the sax player who stole the little mama ( the car, however was a 1955 Olds Starfire convertible ) but Cadillac fit better. Anyway, the Olds wasn't too many steps down from the Caddy. You must remember that in the 1950's and 60's sax men did not lose little mamas ( there was a little competition from drummers, but we were the true champions)ha, ha!! The chord progression is perfect, and fits like a glove.
Growling saxophones will probably be impossible to find. That style was created by Reds Prysock (Tenor)and Earl Bostic (Alto ) but it held for many years. My wife was in total awe of what you did with so little to work with. She is the "little mama" and we are still together. We were married very young. She became my "steady" and I was 19 and she was 17 when we were married. We had our 47th anniversary in April. So there is actually a little truth to the song. I don't know if my soundcard will accept soundfonts. It is a Realtek AC97 Audio card and the device is Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. I may need some instruction on how to get it to work. Thanks for what you have done. It's a remarkable job. I'll play around with the sax solo because the words dictate it, but I hate to drown out such a good piano part. Take care, and get some sleep! Fred

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

Ok, so you're egging me on http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

That's wonderful about your "little mama" http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif Congrats, and may it only get better with age ;)

As for the sax soundfonts, I'm going to post an mp3 of the following file at my soundclick page (www.soundclick.com/beanfield_castle (http://www.soundclick.com/beanfield_castle)) This may be instructive for others who are thinking of using soundfonts.

What I did was to copy out the sax solo that Fred had made, but I didn't do any "massaging" to make it fit any of the fonts. I made five different tracks (just to make it easier to know which one is playing when) and put a different soundfont for each track. Then I played this file through and recorded it. So, if you turn the volume on Composer all the way down, and then "play" the file at the same time you're playing the mp3, it will look and sound like you're playing the soundfonts!

The only thing I did to the recording was to even out the volume between the different fonts, as there were a couple that were very quiet compared to the others. Other than that, the sound is just the difference between the soundfonts themselves.

<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/attachment_icon.gifSax Rock soundfont demo
Saxophone soundfont samples.mid (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Saxophone_soundfont_samples-27059.mid) (3.3 k)</td></tr></table></center>

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry, I have a problem I do not understand how to solve. The first time I played the midi file, I played it on the forum- it opened with Windows Media Player and the vocal was there. I downloaded the file and played it through Windows Media and the vocal was just piano playing one note ( to the beat but no vocal) I thought something went wrong in the download and when I came back to the forum I played it again also through Windows Media Player but the vocal was gone ( Just the one note piano Played), so now I can't play the vocal in any medium. I may try it with Real Player and see what happens. Also, I can't open the .not file in Composer although the file exists. I downloaded Composer Pro to see if previous config problems could be solved there, but the 30 day trial ran out. I tried copying the file into MidiNotate\ Songs, but it still won't open in Composer. Also the file shows a track for tenor saxophone when checking the track setup, but there is no blank track for it in the notation. It is listed in the setup as track 6. I'm sure I can add a track, and work with it that way. I may drop it down to Eb since I don't do well in E, but then I would put it back in E for you.
By the way, the second sax font in the samples sounds the best of the 5 samples. The first may be OK also but the track would need to be raised an octave because the sound is more like baritone. Any ideas on why I lost the vocal? I had it the first time, then it flew the coop. Thanks again, Fred

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

I'm not sure what the problem with the midi file may be. Perhaps it's related to David's observed track problems with saving as midi? The tracks in the midi file above "Saxophone Rock Sherry.mid" are indeed in a different order than the same file that is on my hard drive (which is the one I uploaded to the forum). That's weird...

Anyhow, Fred, to address your points above:

1. For the "can't open the .not file in Composer", I'm using the Pro beta version, and so if you want to see it in the .not version, you'll need to download the free Player. The midi file has everything in it - see next points http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

2. In Composer (or other MidiNotate products) there is now the feature that if a track has no notes in it, it is automatically hidden when you open up the midi file. Just go to the Track/Track Setup command and un-hide it.

3. The vocal line (it's labeled "lyric" in the midi and .not files) is indeed only one note pitch-wise http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif I am in the middle of my "hack and hone" approach, where I first just beat out the rhythm on one note, and then I go back and fix the pitches. Only I haven't fixed the pitches yet for this. It was actually faster for me to just record the mp3 with live vocals so you could hear it before I actually took the time to fix the pitches in the .not file.

4. If you're thinking of the actual recorded vocal, that is an mp3 file that I sent you. I didn't post that here, and I didn't post it on my SoundClick site because it's not my song, and I didn't have your permission to post it there http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif But if you want, I can, and it's easily accessible.

By the way, I've had that tune running through my head all day now http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

I should also mention that a lot of the credit for the arrangement at this point goes to Band in a Box. I just figured out the chord progression and proceeded to weed out various styles til I found one that was close to what I was hearing in my head. There are some things that I would do a bit differently if we wanted to take this little project to a "polished" status, but it stands pretty well as it is.

I also have a Hammond B3 soundfont that sounds hot on the organ track - much better than the typical soundcard organ.

Let me know if you still can't get the file to open right. Maybe I need to email something to you directly.

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
You straightened me out again , M'lady! I had forgotten I opened the MP3 file from the e-mail attachment and it was named Mixdown1. Windows Media Player only did what I told it to do. The vocal is back. Also, I didn't know empty tracks were hidden. I added a track, which I will delete, and un-hide your's. Someday I am going to figure out how to make those soundfonts work, too. Thanks again. Fred

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

I'm glad you got it figured out http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif It can get confusing when you have so many filetypes flying around! I've been working on a project of some "sing along" songs for my aunts and uncles, and going back and forth with one of my aunts (it's a secret to the rest of them for now) about some of the songs and how they should be played, and so forth, and I finally had to set up an Excel spread sheet with all my annotations and such to keep straight what I'd done and what I needed to do where to what files!

As for soundfonts, not all soundcards are able to use them. However, if you find that you'd like to work with them, you can use Composer to set up your music file, and then use a free program called SynthFont (www.synthfont.com (http://www.synthfont.com)) to play the file using soundfonts. SynthFont is only a player, but it does have the ability to render files to a format that you can put on an audio CD, as well as the ability to add real acoustic effects (such as reverb, chorus, EQ, etc) to each track or a sub bus (selection) of tracks. And the cool thing is, that a lot of the effects are to be had for free http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I've written a blurb about soundfont usage, including SynthFont, in the section of the forum about "third party software" if you want to take a look. You've already heard a bit of the difference that a soundfont can make with the sax. If you want to hear some more, you can listen to the different versions of "Communion Aire" on my SoundClick site. I also did "Aaron's Meditation" solely with soundfonts. "Beanfield Winter" has a really cool soundfont "pad", but the really nice oboe is Garritan Personal Orchestra.

A soundfont is sort of like having different "makes" or "brands" of the same instrument available (as well as pads and combos that some folks have made). Different ones may sound better for different applications, so it's nice to have the choice. Another nice thing is that there are a lot of good ones that are free http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi again, Sherry! Of course you have my permission to post the song on your Sound Click site. I just registered with Sound Click also. Maybe one of these days I'll do something with a site there when I have something to put together. Oh, and thanks for the reminder about SynthFont. I have so much going on I forgot to download it before. Fred

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

p.s. Fred,

Just to give you a grin for the evening, my youngest son Joshua has been going around this evening singing "Crazy rockin' saxophone! Crazy rockin' saxophone! Crazy rockin' saxophone! RRRRrrrrrock that saxophone!" Cracks me up http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

(He was in the room when I recorded the vocal earlier. On the soundclick page, he's the kid with the Mickey Mouse nightgown and sunglasses next to the Dadzilla song)

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

That's cute! Tell Josh to keep practicing and we'll put him on the CD. I saw him on the Web Site. I listened to Communion Aire GP. I'll have to listen to the other versions. All your stuff is really good! Fred

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,

I inserted a sax solo and a few fills in the chorus after the solo near the end. I tried to keep it simple to fit the genre ( it's typical Jerry Lee Lewis ). It was a pile of fun, but I'm pretty near whacky after all the editing. It "ain't easy" trying to play a sax solo on the keyboard. I wrote some things in a separate file and played with them until the meter fit pretty closely, although there are probably a few note attacks that may be a bit off. Feel free to make any changes or toss it if need be, and let me know if you want me to make any changes. It's not one of my "signature" solos, so you can do whatever you think works. I was back and forth on exactly where to fit the fills because I did not want to over-ride the piano fills that are perfect. I also added a "Tenor Sax" track. It took me a while to figure out how to unhide your sax track. I left your sax track in in case you had a reason for it, so it is hidden again but it is still there. Thanks for all the work you put into this. It's a real kick working with you. BTW, have your heard Melissa Forbes' songs on Sound Click? She's in the "jazz" section. What a voice! and what great style!!... over and out. Fred

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Oops! I did it again, Sherry. Here's the song. Fred
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/attachment_icon.gifSaxophone Rock_Sherry_midi-take2
Saxophone_rock_Sherry-miditake2-27056.not (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Saxophone_rock_Sherry-miditake2-27056-27069.not) (303.4 k)</td></tr></table></center>

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

That's great! I know how you feel about trying to enter a part for something that's not a keyboard using a keyboard http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif But you did a great job! You got some really nice articulations in, and that's the key to a really convincing performance. I know some folks are coordinated enough to do that type of thing on the fly, but I'm really glad (for me) that Mark has made it so you can put those types of things (mod wheel adjustments, pitch bends, etc) in after you get the notes in http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Since you really like the piano parts, maybe we can just quiet them down a bit during the sax parts. That's easy enough to do. And thanks for letting me work on this with you - it's a lot of fun, and my kids dance when I'm playing it out loud http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I haven't listened to Melissa Forbes, but given your recommendation, I'll have to check her out!

I've also been thinking about the ending - maybe repeating the chorus again, ending temporarily at the "-phone" part of "rock that saxophone", then letting the sax play a short riff (something along the lines of what you have for the ending part now - sort of a wail of triumph ;) ), and have all the instruments hit that last chord for an ending. What do you think? I know it's better to hear it than read it http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif I'll see what I can come up with by way of demonstration.

We've had some really nice weather here lately, and I've been spending a lot of time outside painting and such as that (there's always something to do to a 109 year old house http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif ). But I'm hoping to get a good evening of music work in here soon!

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Thanks Sherry,
I must have tried 20 solos before I remembered the old "KISS" formula. I could have saved a lot of time in the beginning and kept it simple like the song calls for, but I couldn't resist throwing a few bends in here and there. I know what you mean with the triumphant ending. We did some of those in my day. It just has to be done like it was written for the song. Do whatever you like with the chorus or the ending. We just have to keep those kids dancin'. Yeah, definitely listen to Melissa Forbes. I fell in love with her half way through the first song I listened to. She has so much soul. I would go see her if she ever got close to here. I'm gonna go get some of that sun, too. See ya! Fred

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
I did a little something for the kids. Tell them it's a special "gift" from me to keep them dancing. It's a little cut &amp; paste, a lot of editing, some rhytms, some borrowing, some writing. Several songs were involved so everything may not fit perfectly. The guitar solo leaves a little to be desired, but I had to put one in because I always wanted to play a guitar solo. I just could never figure out which end of the guitar you blow into.
Fred


<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/mime_midi.gifThe Robin Rocks For Mahala, Aaron, Tommy &amp; Josh
The Robin Rocks.mid (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/The_Robin_Rocks-27088.mid) (20.4 k)</td></tr></table></center>

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

What fun! And yes, they were dancing http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif (and telling Mom to stop singing so they could hear the music ;) ) You did a great job putting that together.

As for which end of the guitar to blow, why the end that makes the sound you're after, of course ;)

ttfn,
Sherry "doesn't know which side of a sax to strum" Crann http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Sherry "doesn't know which side of a sax to strum" Crann

The side that twangs the loudest!

Glad they were dancing.
Fred

[David Jacklin (dj)]

What's the difference between a saxophone and a chainsaw?

Vibrato.

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Now, that's funny, David!

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
I'm uploading another midi file for Saxophone Rock. I changed the solo, but you can use whatever you like best. There were a couple of wrong words in the previous file that I corrected on this one. I played with it a lot adding guitar solos and rock organ solos, but decided to just go with the sax solo because of the name. I cut and pasted so much I got confused and lost the ability to select a region. It was driving me nuts so I took out the other stuff and left it short with just the sax solo. Let me know if you have any ideas. If you put it together with the vocal, could you mail me a copy on CD of a .wav file and an mp3 file? I only have Synthfont, so I can't do the vocal and I want to put all my stuff on CD. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks again!
Fred Winterling <center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/mime_midi.gifSaxophone Rock_latest file
Saxophone Rock_Latest_finish.mid (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Saxophone_Rock_Latest_finish-27162.mid) (34.3 k)</td></tr></table></center>

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello Fred,

The sax player for your rock band won't be able to show up for rehearsals for a while.

Sherry went into the hospital last week and ended up with an hysterectomy. She's back home but I suspect it will be days before we'll see her back in the forum.

Cheers
-- Mark

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Mark,

Yes, I just got an e-mail from Sherry. And I just assumed she was on vacation having the time of her life. I'm sure glad everthing turned out OK. God bless you, Sherry and hurry back....we miss you!

Fred

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

Well, I'm better than I was, and not as good as I will be, but I'm slowly getting back in the swing of things http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I just downloaded the latest sax solo that you did Fred, and I'll try it out in the "accompaniment" file that I did. I'm still thinking of rearranging the ending a bit, if you think that would be a Good Thing http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

As for recording, I don't mind doing that a bit, but I have recently found out about an audio editor that you might be interested in. It's called Audacity, and it's open source and free http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif You can check it out at http://audacity.soundforge.net/

You can use it to record performances from Composer, and then have that play while you record audio (such as vocals) tracks too. You can then mix down the tracks to two-track stereo wav, mp3, or ogg filetypes for whatever you want to do. I haven't had the opportunity to mess around with it much, but it seems like a great program - and it's free http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif So if you want to do your own vocals, you could probably use this to do it. Or if you want me to do the vocals, I don't mind a bit - this is a fun song http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif Just let me know what you want to do.

Also, if you have SynthFont, were you able to find the sax fonts, or would you like me to email you the files I found? Let me know on that one, too.

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
Sure glad to see you back, girl! I answered your post a couple hours ago, but for some reason it never got posted. I'm trying again.
Feel free to do anything and everything you like with the song. I've tried a bunch of sax solos but I haven't been happy with any of them. For some reason they all sound like a sax played on a keyboard. I keep forgetting you can only play one note at a time on the sax. Plus, I can't hum into the keyboard like I could with the mouthpiece to get that "growl". I did download Sythfont's alto sax font (he said it was good) but it sounds no better than what I have. The tenor, alto and soprano all sound the same. It would be great if you send me some sax files.
I do have Audacity, but I have no idea what to do with it. The only mixing I'm good at are recipes (I'm a killer in the kitchen).
I'm sure the song will sound a lot better with your vocal. I used to sing with my band, but the last time I uttered a sound was 1980. I left the rock tunes to the real vocalists and I did some standards. I did a real good job with "Volare" in Italian, though. I have access to a translation program and I am thinking of doing a few, believe it or not. I don't have a microphone. The only one I can afford is Radio Shack. I don't imagine a $15 mike would sound too good, though. I'd really like to do some Barry Manilow and Neil Diamond tunes just to goof off.
Maybe when we get it done, we can both put it on Soundclick. We'll put both names on it with your name as arranger and sequencer and vocalist. I have 3 songs on Soundclick now. (I have your site as a station on my site). I have been trying to add some rhythm and strings to the ballads, but like Mark says, there is so much rubato. I can't get it to synchronize unless I edit the teeth out of them. It gets better if I lay down the bass and drum parts first, but I don't do well with my own and it takes a ton of editing for parts that are already laid out. I did Ok adding brass to my jazz tune, but I am trying to add a trumpet solo and that is just as bad as my adding sax solos. Maybe I should look for some Ella Fitzgerald scat tunes and steal some of the riffs to make into instrumental solos.
Anyway, have fun with the song. It's as much yours as it is mine. Take care and don't try to do too much.

Fred,
http://www.soundclick.com/fredwinterling

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi again Sherry,...P.S. to above.
Pick any of the sax solos or combinations you think are best for the song.
Fred

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello Sherry,

When you say that you can use Audacity to record performances from Composer, what technique are you using to route Composer's MIDI output to audio input in Audacity? Is the route a physical audio cable from your soundcard's Audio Out to your soundcard's Audio In?

Cheers
-- Mark

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Mark,

It's all "internal". Ie, in Audacity, you can choose from a drop-down list of sources for recording, and to record Composer's MIDI output, I can either use "What you hear" or "Midi synth" and get a recording of the performance without having to mess with cables.

You can also record "live" audio through Composer (using the "record sound audition"), but in that particular case, you don't want to use "What you hear", because then the first track will also be recorded again (because you can hear it when you're recording the second track).

I tried it out using a drum track that I had. I played the drum track in Composer and recorded the performance in Audacity, using "midi synth" for the input. I then added a "fretless bass" track, and did the "audition" thing (double click the voice button to make it red), and then recorded my "freestyle" playing directly into Audacity, without playing anything in Composer. I have the settings in Audacity so that whatever has already been recorded plays as I record another track, so I could hear the drum track recording that I had already made. If there is any delay, you'll need to "time adjust" the tracks so they match up (this may be an issue for some synths).

You can also choose wave, microphone, analog mix (line, CD, aux), or CD digital as a source for recording. I haven't tried those out yet, though. Then when you're done, you can adjust panning, volume, as well as some effects (a goodish list, including EQ) and mix it down to a nice stereo file. I'm looking forward to working with it a bit more. It has a few strengths that my Creative Wave Studio doesn't have, and vice versa, so it is a nice tool to have.

ttfn,
Sherry

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

I'll email you the fonts that I have (they are free distribution, as long as they are kept intact http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif ). And doing the vocals will be fun - thanks for letting me http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

As for doing your own recording, don't shy away from inexpensive mics - they're not necessarily bad, they just may not be as "hardy" as the more expensive ones. I have a couple of Nady Starpower 9 mics that I got from Musician's Friend when they had them on sale for $11 each! One of my "sound guy" friends said that they had bought a couple as "backups" for church, and when they ran a spectrum analysis on them, they came right up there with some Shure mics that cost 10x more. I use mine for recording vocals, whistle, and other acoustic instruments, and they are just fine for my purposes. I don't use them for a traveling band, and I treat them nicely.

So go for it - get some of that scat singing in http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hi Sherry,

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

You can also record "live" audio through Composer (using the "record sound audition")...<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>That led me to believe that Audacity installs a MIDI driver that Composer would output to, and from which Audacity would record, but I didn't find such a MIDI device in the Control Panel.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

... you can choose from a drop-down list of sources for recording, and to record Composer's MIDI output, I can either use "What you hear" or "Midi synth" and get a recording of the performance without having to mess with cables.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>That led me to believe that I should find a "drop-down list of sources" in some menu or dialog box in Audacity, but I wasn't able to find it. Where should I look for this drop-down list?

Thanks!
-- Mark

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Mark,

Re. the first one - the "record sound audition" is a Composer feature, not an Audacity feature. I had Audacity set to "midi synth" or "what you hear", and it recorded the sounds that I was playing via my keyboard through Composer. Does this make sense?

Second, the drop down list looks like this:

http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/27193.jpg

It's located in the middle of the menu bar. There is also a listing under File/Preferences for a number of parameters that you can mess with to do various things.

ttfn,
Sherry

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hi Sherry,

In Audacity, the dropdown menu is disabled. I already did a File New. A single audio track is ready for recording from some source. But I don't know what I need to do to activate the dropdown menu.

If you should be resting instead of helping me learn Audacity, please rest. There's no hurry for me to do this. But you did get my curiousity going. Audacity might be a handy tool for Composer users.

Cheers
-- Mark

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Mark,

I'm including a screen grab of my File/Preferences/Audio I/O (tab) dialog. I noticed that if the "Enable meter toolbar" was unchecked, the drop-down menu wasn't on the toolbar. Is this what you mean?

http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/27196.jpg

I think you're correct that this could be a very useful tool for MidiNotate users!

Perhaps one of us (or anyone else who uses it) could sort of run it through a few paces and then write up a bit more extensive "quick guide" of some type in the Third Party Software section.

ttfn,
Sherry

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello Sherry,

The Audacity Preferences looks just like yours. Yet the dropdown that includes the MIDI Synth option is still disabled. I haven't found any documentation that suggests why the dropdown control is disabled. My best guess is that this has something to do with Preferences / Audio I/O. Could you show me a screenshot of that panel?

Thanks!
-- Mark

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Mark,

I hadn't noticed before, and didn't know if you did, but there is a "full manual" available for Audacity at http://audacity.soundforge.net/ It may have the answer to your dilema.
It calls the On-line help that is included with Audacity a "Quick Guide".

In the meantime....
I know this is probably overkill, but I took screen shots of all my settings in the Preferences tabbed dialog box http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Hmmm.....

I just tried uploading files, but I'm not getting the little Upload dialog, just a "connecting to..." line in my browser.

I'll email you the pix for now, and if anyone else is interested, I can email them directly until such time as I can post them here.

ttfn,
Sherry

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello Sherry,

I think there is some sort of incompatibility between the MIDI soundcard / driver on one of my machines and Audacity. I tried Audacity on a second machine and was able to successfully record while I was playing back from Composer. This is very handy!

I've started a new forum topic for Audacity (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/26888/27225.html?1123090626) under the Third Party Tools section of this forum. let's continue the discussions about Audacity there.

Sherry, thanks for introducing all of us to Audacity!

Cheers
-- Mark

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
Thanks for the info about the "full manual" available on the audacity site. I spoke too soon before about nobody writing a manual for dummies. Their manual is very understandable and complete. Thanks Audacity guys!
I do think there should be some sort of set up to configure a midi device if the program doesn't recognize it and make it available in the drop down menu. I finally figured out after three days that the only way I could record with my keyboard is to open Composer, and select PC2 on my keyboard (which should not be done for that purpose). Then minimize Composer and open Audacity to record. The volume is very faint and there is a little distortion, but it works. My keyboard connects to the computer with a USB connector. There is no "line-in" to connect it to my soundcard, but luckily I found the work-around. This could be a very useful tool with Composer
Fred

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello Fred and Sherry,

Where is the Audacity manual at http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ ?

Thanks
-- Mark

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Mark,
I'll go to the site and find it for you now.Get back to you>
Fred

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Mark,
Go to the main page, click on "Help" then "Documentation" then dowload "Users manual" (not the quick referrence)
After downloading and unzipping, look for index.hml
The first time I used it, for some reason I had to got back on the web to read the manual. Then I could open it without going to the ineternet after that. You may not have to do that.
Fred

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hi Fred,

Thanks for pointing me to the Audacity Users Manual.

The Audacity Users Manual doesn't provide any more information about how Audacity determines what "Input Sources" are available. But this manual does include some introductory topics that the online help doesn't.

Cheers
-- Mark

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Mark,
So far, I can only do it through Composer. Anyway, I might possibly be onto something. Since Audacity doesn't yet allow playing of midi files, I found if you open Composer and Audacity together, you can play a midi file in Composer, maximize audacity and select record and hear the midi file playing in Composer and record the keyboard in Audacity. I laid down a base and drum part in Composer and played it back and recorded in Audacity. However, the sound is distorted. But it shows it can be done. I was just having fun playing with it, though. I would probably use it mainly to record vocals with mp3 or wav files.
Fred

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello Fred,

I had the same problem that the recording of Composer by Audacity was distored with crackles. Perhaps there are settings in Audacity that can fix this.

Cheers
-- Mark

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Mark,
Yeah, I was looking in the direction of the volume settings but it didn't seem to help. When I select my soundcard in preferrences instead of the Windows mapping, the volume in Audacity for record is set all the way down and it can't be moved up. I was scanning their forum Q&amp;A sections and the suggestions made to others with that problem didn't work for me. The answer is in there somewhere. By the way, did you know there is a "developer" section as well? I think you can download the code or even get a developer's beta version to check out. Everything is under "get involved".
Fred

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hi Fred,

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

By the way, did you know there is a "developer" section as well? I think you can download the code or even get a developer's beta version to check out.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Yes, I'm aware that Audacity is open source code. Open source code is a great idea. It has produced great software, such as Linux. As a commercial software developer, I must be careful not to violate open source code licenses. If I were to use any of the Audacity source code, I might be obligated to publish some of my source code. I'm not sure how much of my source code I would need to publish to meet the open source code license agreement. So, I'm careful to not download and look at open source code, until I know exactly what my obligations are if I were to use the open source code in the MidiNotate commercial product.

Cheers
-- Mark

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

A couple of notes:

1. I promise I will get to your sax number in the not-too-distant-future http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif
I've been madly working to finish a project that my cousin and I are working on for our aunts and uncles. I've been getting all the accompaniment prepared (20 songs of piano arranging, for some old parlor songs and hymns)so that I could send it to her to lay down vocal tracks (she's better than me - an honest to goodness professional). I've got all her part done, but I still have two instrumental songs that I'm scanning from sheet music and have to edit (the copies are quite dark, and prone to lots of errors). When I get that finished, I'll send them along to her, as her son is doing the final mix and burn for us. We're trying to get all this done by the first of October for our annual family reunion. And I still have to get the covers done...

An interesting side note to Mark: I'm using the GPO Steinway piano, with the "Parlor" setting in Ambiance. If you listen to this, Mark, you'll probably cringe. However, my Aunt Ruth tells me that this sounds just like Grandma's piano did, because it was so old that all the pads had worn off the hammers, and they were too poor to afford having them replaced. So, I've been able to recreate, using GPO and Composer, a very close approximation of Grandma's playing. My Aunt Ruth has been our "technical advisor" for this project, as she's the only piano player in the whole bunch. When I tweaked "Blackhawk Waltz" like she told me, and sent her the performance that I recorded, she said she nearly cried, because it sounded just like Grandma playing. Pretty cool the things I've been able to do with Composer/GPO http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

2. When recording into Audacity, you might want to check the levels that are set on your soundcard for playback AND recording. Some sound cards have many places that can affect levels, and for mine I have to check not only the playback levels, but also the recording levels in order to make sure that things are high/low enough not to cause problems in Audacity.

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
Take your time! The sax thing can wait. Heck, it's waited 51 years so far. I mentioned I was going to try a couple vocals I used to do and I found 2 great arrangements for them. Only one problem, though... I thought I could just climb back up on the horse I fell off of...WRONG!
The low range hasn't lost too much, but the upper middle range cracks like I'm making popcorn, and the higher range is totally gone. Not to mention that I completely run out of air after about 3 measures. I went to Singing is easy.com (associated with thesingingspot.com) and downloaded 2 free singing lessons. They are part of a 10 lesson program, but they provide the things I need to start with. I think the program is $24.95 but when I downloaded the free lessons, they offered a $5 discount. I haven't sung a sylable in 25 years and it sure shows. Heck, I wouldn't have a prayer on American Idol, so I think the 2 free lessons might be all I need to satisfy myself and the new puppy. BTW, the puppy hates my piano playing. My other dogs loved it, but as soon as Raven hears me start to play, he runs in my office and uses his head to knock my hands off the keyboard.
Fred

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hi Sherry,

That's fun that you've been able to recreate a honky-tonk piano, or at least the worn-out pad effect if not out-of-tune effect. Maybe we'd better not let Gary know that you let his Steinway piano fall into such disrepair.

Cheers
-- Mark

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

Well, I'm about done with honky-tonk/parlor piano, and am messing about with the sax again http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif I remember that you had mentioned that one of the sax soundfonts that I had recorded for you and also sent to you sounded better than the others, but I can't find in my emails or on the forum which one. Could you let me know again, please, and I'll record the accompaniment as it now stands and see what you think. If you like it, then I'll record a vocal and we'll call it a take http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Here's the .not and a .mid. I'm using the new release candidate for Composer 1.1, so you'll need that for the .not file.

<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/attachment_icon.gifsaxophone rock almost done http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif
Saxophone_rock final in progress.not (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Saxophone_rock_final_in_progress-27313.not) (327.8 k)</td></tr></table></center>
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/mime_midi.gifsaxophone rock almost done http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif midi
Saxophone_rock final in progress.mid (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Saxophone_rock_final_in_progress-27314.mid) (38.3 k)</td></tr></table></center>

I've put in a small "sax teaser" at the beginning of the song - please feel free to change it to more appropriate sax playing. I thought a little sax at the beginning would be a Good Thing http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I also doubled the chorus at the end of the song - it just seemed to want to be there ;)

Make any changes you want, let me know about the sax soundfont, and we'll go from there!

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
Thanks for all the work on the sax tune! I did not download the latest Composer, so I am unable to read or play the .not file. The midi file is fine. I did make 3 changes:
1. I cleared the sax measure #9 thru #10 in the beginning of the song. I think it interfered with the intro. I think it would take a great deal to add sax in the beginning, but feel free to try whatever you think.
2. There were a couple of wrong words ( I think it came in the beginning when I first uploaded the song. The old yellowed manuscript had the words " I looked up and saw my flippin' little mama" and I changed them years ago to " I looked up in shock, saw my flippin' etc." I think when I first put the words in, I put the old ones in. There were a number of files and one of the wrong ones slipped through.
3. The sax ending was out of tune. The notes were correct, and when clicking on them sounded correct. However, when playing back, the concert pitch notes sounded instead of the tenor sax transposition. That probably happened when I made the solos in one key and transposed them later. The solos are fine, it was just the last measures. So I simply raised the notes one full tone for those measures instead of using the instrument transpose feature because it affected the rest of the song. It was easier to just do a few measures wrong than mess up the rest of it. I am uploading the corrected file and added the word "edited" so you can differentiate.
As far as the sax fonts are concerned, most of them are fine. I went on your Soundclick site and played the five sax samples and it seems #2 and #3 sound a little better. I found that the main problem with the fonts is the pitch. For some reason the higher register does not agree with the sax fonts. The sax sounds better in the middle register and lower. Accoustically, I played several notes higher than the instrument is made for ( my secret "falsetto" range) but that doesn't work for electronic sounds. I usually record an octave lower now for sax to avoid the "tinny" sound of available sax fonts.
Anyway, you have done a great job. Sorry for the mistakes I made. I am still in the trial and error mode. When you have the MP3 or Wav file, please e-mail me a copy of one or the other. I can use audacity to make a file of each. Thanks!!!
Fred
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/mime_midi.gifCorrecte midi file for saxophone rock
Saxophone_rock_final_in_progress_edited.mid (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Saxophone_rock_final_in_progress_edited-27320.mid) (38.5 k)</td></tr></table></center>

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
"HOLD ALL TICKETS....There's been an objection!"
You are absolutely right! The sax tune definitely needs sax in the beginning. (Not only in the beginning, but throughout the whole song.) I'll need a day or so to complete it. I liked the piano part so much, that I was afraid to interfere with it. But, I think I have it figured out. Using the old KISS formula, I thought I would try copying the base part and putting it in the G clef and added a sax track. I'm simply moving the pitch up 2 octaves, changing some quarter notes to eighth notes and editing the attack and duration and I think it's sounding pretty good without interfering with the piano at all. So far, I like it. I am going to try it all the way through, except I'm also thinking of switching to copying the piano fills in the chorus and playing along with the piano there. I also think the ending can use a drum rim shot before the last note and extend the last note another 4 beats and make it louder. Sorry it took me so long to get brilliant (Ha ha)
Fred

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

Funny you should pop up with this - I was just giving this number a spin yesterday. For some reason, when I play the latest version you sent, the sax is out of tune with the rest of the song. I was playing the last midi you posted.

I think your arranging ideas sound good!! I like the piano part, too, but it is a SAX song http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I know how it goes - I have few songs that I had sort of stewing in my mind, not quite what was exactly "it", but not knowing exactly how to make them "it". Then - bingo! - out of the blue it seemed, "it" happened http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif I think it has to do with your subconcious sort of mulling it over and finally getting it right.
I'm anxious to hear this new iteration!

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
With the out of tune thing, weird things have been happening all over. Maybe because of a lot of cut and paste. When I played the latest midi the last couple of measures were out of tune. If you clicked on the note with the mouse the proper tone sounded but when using the playback it was out of tune, so I raised those measures up one tone to correct it. If I used the transpose option, it took the sax in the rest of the song out of tune, That is why I only transposed those last measures. Now, measures 67 thru 78 decided to change the key signature to the key of C. It decided on its own to change the signature from 4 sharps to 4 naturals. (I don't know if that happened on my end or your's)However, during playback there was no key change and all the notes sounded correct. Also, I had to add a track for the new sax parts. But when I saved the song (as a midi) after arranging the first half of the sax part (so I could finish it later) when I reopened the file, the new sax track ended where I stopped before saving and I had to add another sax track in order to continue on. So now there are 2 sax tracks for the first half of the song and one for the last half. Then, the program continues to insist on showing the sax part in the bass clef. When I change it, it's fine. But everytime I save the file and re-open it, it decides to show the sax part in the bass clef again. There is no problem with the sound, but I would hate to have to try and read it. There is no reason for the program to have that part in the bass clef. The notes are not out of range. If these problems were the exact same when we both play the file, it would be no problem to simply copy and paste the entire notation where necessary and make the proper changes. But, I don't know what to do if each of us gets a different reaction. If you are hearing out of tune sax parts in different areas than me, then something is strange somewhere. I think we'll figure it out. If the sax is out of tune when you play it back, it should be off by 1 whole tone. After I get all the sax stuff in, I'll try to make corrections here. But, one of us could have a glitch somewhere that makes it different in the other's program. Let's see what happens after it is done. Thanks for all your help on this.
Fred

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
Ta DA!! I think it's there!
As far as I can tell, it looks like I may have fixed all the problems. Namely, the last 2 measures of the ending, the wrong key signature in #67-#78, the rock organ part (somehow got changed to piano in the track setup)etc. etc. I had to delete and add sax tracks to get the last 2 measures to play back properly. Strange! If you wrote and E, it sounded like an E, was in tune with my keyboard as an E, but playing it back it wanted to sound as a D. That's why there are 3 different tenor sax tracks showing in the setup. Anyway, i am sending you the .mid file and the .not file. IF you change anything and want to send it to me, send a midi file. I don't have 1.1 and can't read .not files created in it. Let me know what you think. Thanks again!
Fred
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/mime_midi.gifSaxophone Rock_final_edited
Saxophone_rock_final_edited.mid (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Saxophone_rock_final_edited-27349.mid) (39.8 k)</td></tr></table></center>
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/attachment_icon.gifSaxophone Rock_final_edited(not file)
Saxophone_rock_final_edited.not (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Saxophone_rock_final_edited-27350.not) (359.1 k)</td></tr></table></center>

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

YYYYEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

That sounds great! I really like the sax throughout the piece, and the way you handled the piano is terrific - it still retains the "flavor" while toning down the actual piano presence.

I'll have to get my soundfont settings from the older file that I was working with and plug them in to this new song file - that should rock some socks off!

Now I'm anxious to get it recorded - this is fun http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I should add here that I've been experimenting with Audacity, and just tonight I took a vocal track that I'd recorded to an accompaniment track that was slightly off time in two spots from the accompaniment track I recorded tonight. I used some various "time manipulation" techniques to make them mesh together so you couldn't tell that they weren't recorded together. It's the revised Psalm 23 on my SoundClick site. I think there may be some promise there for you to record some of your own vocals, or other acoustic/live parts to mesh with your Composer/keyboard recordings.

ttfn,
Sherry
www.soundclick.com/beanfield_castle (http://www.soundclick.com/beanfield_castle)

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
Yeah! Glad you like it. Speaking of recording vocals in Audacity. I did 4 so far and I am having the time of my life. Being 67 years old and not singing for 30 years, I didn't think I had a prayer. Actually, I was shocked. They are in tune (mostly) no cracking (much)and I didn't hold back or start off with anything easy. But, I didn't get any strong encouragement from my wife. She said " It isn't BAD, but not to go near 'Star Search' ". Heck, I thought I could at least make it past the early rejections on American Idol if I bought a wig and lied about my age. ( I think I can pass for 66 ). Since you have been playing around with it, have you tried to do any harmony? I was going to try recording different tracks with each other and see if I could get a sound like the 4 Freshmen.....um...4 Seniors?
Anyway, I'm ready to have my socks knocked off. Can't wait to hear the whole thing! I'm off now to listen to your revised Psalm 23.
Fred

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello Fred and Sherry,

This is the first time I listened to Saxaphone Rock. It's a lot of fun!

Sorry that I couldn't join in the fun and conversation about this, but I was busy getting 1.1 out. I didn't even have time to read the forum messages. The days are fast approaching where I won't be able to read every forum message.

For my benefit, and any other forum reader who is jumping into this late, could you provide me a quick summary of how this song was created? Did Fred write it from scratch? The piano and sax parts are great! Did Fred record parts from a MIDI keyboard. I wish I could play the piano like that. What were Sherry's contributions here? Did any auto-composition software like BIAB help out?

Cheers
-- Mark

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Mark,
Wow! What a blast working with Sherry on Saxophone Rock! She's sharper than 3 tacks. To give you a little history on this, I wrote the song from scratch at age 16 (51 years ago). It is about 80% true. I have been married to "my little mamma" for 47 years and actually "stole" her from my drummer. I had a band called "The Crystals" at that time, but never played the song in the band (obvious reasons). I burried it and it stayed burried all that time. Strangely, I found it a few months ago nestled among my old Schillinger Jazz books. I hope Schillinger never finds out! Sherry can tell you more about what part BIAB played in the song. I did the solos on my keyboard (that's the reason it took so long) and I was never happy with them, somehow it just "ain't the same" as playing a sax. I liked the piano part too, and I had a big problem adding sax to the rest of the song because I didn't want to encroach on the flavor. I finally got the idea to use the bass part and edit it a little to fit the sax. It turned out to be the right thing to do. Sherry is doing the vocal also. We're equal partners in crime. It would have been great to have had you join in the fun, but I can only imagine how busy you've been.
Fred

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy,

I heard my name? ;) Fred, with flattery like that, it's no wonder you "stole" your little mama from the drummer ;)

Fred had recorded a rough melody line, and a short sax part to get us going. I took his melody line and my guitar, and sat down one night and came up with the chord progression - Fred's "three chords and a cloud of dust" approach http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif Based on what Fred had told me about the song and his sax days, I had a "feel" going through my head, and I sat down with Biab and entered the song chords. I then listened to various iterations via the different styles that Biab has, until I found one that was pretty close to what I had going on in my head. I recorded that accompaniment and did a rough vocal for Fred to listen to and see what he thought. He must have been sending me pretty hefty brain waves, because he said that was pretty well exactly the song as he'd imagined it, too. We've used that as the foundation for the song, along with a number of changes that have gone on since then. Fred has done nearly all of the honest musical changes. I've just been along for the ride http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I'm going to be recording a rough of the "final" version for Fred's review, using some soundfonts that I have for the audio recording.

Which reminds me Fred, since you've got recording working with Audacity, should I just record the accompaniment and let you do the vocals? That's not a problem at all. It is an awful fun song... Maybe Mark wants to do vocals .... ;)
Or you could make it a karaoke song http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry "I'll be quiet now" Crann

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello Fred and Sherry,

This is a remarkable collaborative effort you two have done, congratulations!

This sort of collaborative composing has been going on in the Internet for years, but I haven't taken a close look at what people have come up with. The end result of your joint effort, the music, is quite admirable. But also, the way you worked together is quite admirable.

I hope we'll see more of this kind of collaborative music making in this forum.

Please do post the music here when you're ready.

Cheers
-- Mark

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
Nah! I can't do the vocal. I wouldn't mind having a karaoke type file for it, but my voice isn't made for rock &amp; roll. My experience in that arena was limited to " doo wap, doo wap" and "sha na na na". I would love an MP3 of the final product. I think you are elected for the vocal. It might also be a lot of fun to have everybody who wants to have some fun chime in and sing it, too. I know Tim can do it. His "Baby, I really got to go" cracks me up.
If I had known 50 years ago that this thing would be on something called the "Internet" I would have added a 4th chord.
Have fun!!!!
Fred

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the compliments. Sherry and I did put in a lot of time, and had a lot of fun doing it. I also learned a lot from the experience. I think working with others adds motivation. Working with Sherry made the whole thing really interesting. I agree with you, it would be great to have more of this type of collaboration on the forum. I am thrilled to have had the opportunity to work with someone with so much skill. I welcome any chance to do it again.
Fred

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

How about this - when we finalize the accompaniment, I'll record it and save it as a separate file. I'll also record a vocal track, and make a mix for "publication" purposes. But I can send you both files, and that way you'll have just the accompaniment (a karaoke version) and a "finished" version.

I'm emailing you an mp3 of the accompaniment for you to listen and tell me what you think of relative instrument levels. I had to change a few of the levels because the soundfonts vary in level from the GS wavetable. Let me know what you think, and we'll get this baby going http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hello Sherry,
Wow! You Da Lady!!!!!!!!!! How, in the name of Herbie Hancock, did you come up with that growl in the sax? What a Master! The sax level is perfect. I would raise the volume slightly on the piano and a tiny bit on the bass. The drum and organ volume is perfect, too.
It would be great to have both a karaoke version and a finished version. It probably would be a good idea to have a midi version of the accompaniment, too. Great job! Thanks again!
Fred

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

I'm glad you liked it http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif I'll make the adjustments that you suggested, and send you another mp3.

As for the growl, YOU da man http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif I did nothing except find a soundfont that seemed to have a good growl to it when played in your song! It's the Roland Super Tenor Sax soundfont. I can't remember where I got it, and it's not the Hammersound or SF2MIDI site (I just checked). However, if you want it I can email it to you.

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
You once sent me the Roland Super Tenor soundfont, but it was a .rar file and I coulnd't find a way to use it. I can download a trial version of WinRar, but the file is not the typical .zip file. The icon is the windows icon that denotes the file can't be opened without knowing which program created it. I'm not sure if I actually unzipped an original zip file or not to get the .rar file. If it is available as an SF2 file, I can use it. I'll have to check that all out. Thanks.
BTW I also found that Roland file on some web site but I don't remember which one either.
Fred

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

I'm sending you a couple of mp3s. One is just the accompaniment with the levels tweaked a bit per my interpretation of your instructions above http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif The other is a rough mix of a vocal track with this same accompaniment, with a bit of reverb added. This is the first I've been able to work on the song today, and since everyone else is in bed right now, I had to tone down the vocals a bit. We'll rock a bit more on the final version http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

Again, let me know what you think, and if any other levels need adjusting to your ear.

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
Everything sounds good to me! I really like the reverb, too. That's cool! Ain't we got fun?

Freddie The Rocker (don't tell Peabody)

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

Okey dokey. I'll try to get a final cut done asap, one with and one without vocals. Are the reverb levels good for you? I'm using the reverb in my Creative Wave Studio. I tried the one in Audacity, but not being familiar with that one, it didn't sound as good, and I'm already familiar with my CW Studio, so I went that route. I can easily change the settings if you want.

I guess I should also try to get the pitches corrected for the lyric part. I don't know if that's a big deal for folks who might want to try their hand at a karaoke version. How good are you, Fred, at playing in a melody line like that into Composer? Anything is better than me http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif If you don't want to do that, I'll try and go through and fix them.

And now I'll show my ignorance - why shouldn't we tell Peabody?

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
Oh No, the reverb is perfect! I like it.

I can do the melody line if you like. E is not my key, but it will give me some needed practice. Anybody that wants to sing it will do their own thing anyway.

Peabody? I don't know about today, but back then there sure were not any rock and roll classes. Would you believe that my entire band consisted of nothing but serious classical and jazz musicians from Peabody and Juliard? At least most of us used stage names. (Mine was Freddie Brent).You couldn't make a dime then playing jazz, all the money was in rock and roll. We did upgrade when we went on the road and did mostly Chicago, Blood Sweat And Tears, Three Dog Night, etc. We also had a 40 minute show with nothing but the Beatles. And we all wore long wigs. It was a panic! Oh well, back to the present day. I have to run down to North Carolina now, but I'll work on the melody line when I get back.

Fred

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

If you don't mind putting in the melody line, that'd be great. All we want it for is if someone is just listening to the midi or .not file without hearing the audio recording, so you can change it to whatever key you want http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

And thanks for the explanation about Peabody. Juillard I'm familiar with, but I didn't know about Peabody.

I would give a lot to see a picture of you in a long wig - you could use that for your "song pic" that goes with this song on SoundClick http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

p.s. I have a tshirt that Mahala made for me (she drew the picture and wrote the words) that has me playing bass, and she wrote "See Mom Rock!" I may have to scan that and put it up on my SoundClick site http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy Fred,

Ok, you asked for it http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif I've got a proposed final mix, and I'll send you the mp3 of it. If you want anything changed, just let me know. I have all iterations of files through the process http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

I'm going to let you post it on your SoundClick site, and that way you can see how many folks listen to it and enjoy it. After all, it's your song - I'm just the hired vocals (well, a little tweaking of bass and drums, too) http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

If you want a copy of the wav files for the accompaniment and the full mix, just let me know and I can send you a CD with those files on them. They are a bit large to try and email, and I don't have a webpage that I can post a download on for those. I'll need your snail mail (you can email me privately with that) to get you that.

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry and Everybody!!

Sherry, you did a great job! Thanks again for all the fun!I think the song is fine the way it is. I wouldn't change anything.

I am posting the karaoke files below. I used Vibraphone for the lyrics because it cuts through nicely. Now we are ready for a bunch of
vocals from all you guys.

Mark, We need a Little Richard and an Elvis 'Thank ya...Thank ya, very much' Presley version. Which one can we put you down for?

Fred
<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/attachment_icon.gifSaxophone Rock_karaoke (used Composer 1.09)
Saxophone Rock_Karaoke.not (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Saxophone_Rock_Karaoke-27371.not) (353.8 k)</td></tr></table></center>

<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/mime_midi.gifSaxophone Rock_Karaoke
Saxophone Rock_Karaoke.mid (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/35939/Saxophone_Rock_Karaoke-27372.mid) (39.8 k)</td></tr></table></center>

[Mark Walsen (markwa)]

Hello Fred and Sherry,

Congratulations on finishing this song. It sounds great!

Are you going to publish an MP3 of this on the 'net somewhere, such as at soundclick.com? Lots of folk need to hear it.

Cheers
-- Mark

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,

If you are sending me a CD of the wav files, if there is room form some of the sound fonts on the same CD that would be great. My dial-up connection is ssslllloooowwww. Thanks again!

Fred

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Mark,

Thank you!! Saxophone Rock MP3 is now published on my soundclick web site. You can hear it at:

www.soundclick.com/fredwinterling (http://www.soundclick.com/fredwinterling)

Fred

[M G Jacobs (mgj32)]

It's a hot summer night in 1955 and we're in the White Hut, less for the fries dripping grease, than the juke box, which is never silent because the supply of quarters is virtually endless. Louis inserts a thumb and forefinger into a small pocket in his black leather jacket and they emerge with one of those between them. To please our girls, he plays two by Elvis, but the third is a new one, called "Saxophone Rock."

Cool sound and nice memories, you guys.

best,
mgj

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Thanks MG,
I remember my black leather jacket, too. Would you believe I still have enough hair left in the back to comb it into a D.A.? Those were the days!
Fred

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy,

I'm glad folks are enjoying it - it's been a blast to work with Fred on it!

I'm also posting it on my SoundClick site, not to compete with Fred, but because I might get listeners who don't know about Fred yet and should hear his song http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

www.soundclick.com/beanfield_castle (http://www.soundclick.com/beanfield_castle)

ttfn,
Sherry

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Sherry,
Thanks! Good idea!

Fred

[Fred Winterling (harbor1)]

Hi Everybody,

Thanks for your support of Saxophone Rock on the soundclick web site! After only one day, it is #68 out of 853 songs in the Rock &amp; Roll category, and it is being downloaded. Not only that, but my other songs are also being downloaded for the first time. If you haven't heard it, go to my web site or Sherry's and help us push it higher. Thanks again!
Fred

www.soundclick.com/fredwinterling (http://www.soundclick.com/fredwinterling)