changing instruments

[hb]

Why is it that when I click on the sound horn to change the instrument of a staff, most of the time, when I click on a different instrument, it does not change the title of the old instrument to the new one? It actually DOES change the instrument, but 9 times out of 10 if I have a 'grand piano" playing and click on "church organ", I have to go to the title box and type in "church organ" in order to make the sheet music read correctly. Every once in a while when I click on an instrument, the title box automatically changes, but most of the time, it doesn't. Can this be corrected?
thanks in advance,
hb

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy HB,

I'm not sure if the following is the problem that you've come across, so please let me know if it is or isn't.

In checking out Instrument Sound Changes, I did the following:

1. Opened a .mid file.
2. Clicked on the "Sound changes" tab.
3. Clicked on the left hand piano staff of the score.
4. Selected a different instrument (reed organ), and entered the optional text "reed organ" to have shown in the score.
5. Clicked "Ok."
6. The sound change horn icon showed up in the score, but no text did.
7. With the sound change horn still selected (it was blue), I then clicked the large "A" icon (for increasing the font size) until the text showed up.

It appears that the current default text size for sound changes is set at 1, and therefore doesn't show up unless you purposely enlarge it. I will report this problem to Mark Walsen, our chief developer, for fixing in the next maintenance release, due out shortly.

ttfn,
Sherry

[hb]

Not quite, Sherry. I will try again.
In a piece of music, I click on the sound horn to change the instrument of that staff. The box opens up to give me a choice of instruments. Let's say it's default sound is flute and I want to change it to "grand piano". I click on "grand piano". There is a box in the upper left hand corner for the name of the new instrument to appear. Almost all of the time, this new instrument does not appear in that box. I have to highlight the old instrument name, (flute), and type in the instrument that I have selected, (grand piano). It's important to tell you that just because the new name did not appear in the box, it did, however actually change instruments. I am asking this because, every once in a while when I click on an instrument, it will automatically put the name of the new instrument in the box on it's own, but not very often. It's no huge deal, I was curious as to why sometimes it changes names on it's own, and sometimes, (or most of the time ), it doesn't. If I don't take the time to physically type the name of the new instrument in the box, it will show the old instrument on the staff.
Hope this is clearer. Thanks for your help. Sorry I was so late in replying.
hb

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy HB,

The instrument name doesn't automatically come up for an instrument sound change because some folks don't want text to show up on the score (it's too cluttered looking). It also doesn't automatically change if you've already got an existing name in the box and you're changing the instrument sound. Some folks prefer to use their own designations for a staff rather than a particular instrument name, because if they then use a sound change, the instrument name changes as well.

For example, perhaps a violin passage will include a legato passage that uses a "slow strings" instrument, then a solo passage that uses a particular "Stradavari solo" (if they have a sound engine), then a pizzicato section using the instrument "Pizzicato violin". They want to keep the staff name just "violin 1", rather than having it change every time they try out or change an instrument.

Setting up a new staff should always have the instrument name entered in the name field by default, until you manually type in a different name.

So that's the current theory http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif Is that how you observed it to work? And even more importantly, do you have any suggestions for improving how it behaves? We're always interested in improvement suggestions http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

[hb]

Thanks for the answer. At least I know now that it's not a program problem. I still don't know why, every once in a while when I click on an instrument, it automatically changes the name by itself in the box. No big deal though. I am really having a lot of fun with the program. I will probably have some suggestions in the future after really digging into it. The only thing I can think of right now is that sometimes when I tell it to put in the chord names, it kinda goes overboard and puts a lot of chords in there that probably shouldn't be. That probably could be fixed if I didn't include all the staffs in chord transcription. Don't know for sure. I have thought of one other thing though and this probably has to do with the music in the midi itself and this happened to me today. I wanted to transcribe out of a difficult key into the key of G and when it did, it did have the sharp on the F, but the actual music was in the key of D. I have ran across this several times. I have transcribed into G and gotten music in C, but it still has the sharp on the F in the staff. Thanks again.
hb

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy HB,

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

The only thing I can think of right now is that sometimes when I tell it to put in the chord names, it kinda goes overboard and puts a lot of chords in there that probably shouldn't be. That probably could be fixed if I didn't include all the staffs in chord transcription.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

You're probably right on target. Often times in "found" .mid files, there may be some "decorative" instrumentation that actually is more confusing to chord analysis than helpful. As you work with more files, you'll develop the knack (and ear) for discerning which instruments should be included in chord analysis, as well as which shouldn't, in a given song file.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

I wanted to transcribe out of a difficult key into the key of G and when it did, it did have the sharp on the F, but the actual music was in the key of D. I have ran across this several times. I have transcribed into G and gotten music in C, but it still has the sharp on the F in the staff.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

I think you're using the "Staff/Transpose actual pitches" here, correct? If so, then you may be finding music that is "modal", which sometimes can look like it's in a different key.

If the transposition is causing you concern, please feel free to post one of the .mid files here that you're working with, describe what you're trying to do, and we'll have a look at it.

ttfn,
Sherry

[hb]

Yes, I am using the Staff/Transpose actual pitches. I will upload a file I did today. I told it to transpose to G. The file I'm sending is what I got when it transposed. As you can see it's in D with a sharp on the F line in the staff. I must say that most of the melody was in the bass clef staff and I clicked on the treble clef in the "staff symbols" to get the melody up on the treble clef staff. I also put in "Fake Book" format, but I don't think that's an issue here. ?? Outside of that, I don't think I did anything else.
Let me know what you think.
thanks,
hb<center><table border=1><tr><td>http://www.notation.com/discus/icons/attachment_icon.giftranspose to G
If you could read my mind in G.not (http://www.notation.com/discus/messages/30405/If_you_could_read_my_mind_in_G-35047.not) (431.6 k)</td></tr></table></center>

[hb]

P.S. What is "modal" ? Sorry so stupid!
hb

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy HB,

Thanks for uploading the file - that's always helpful http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif And please - there are no stupid questions http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif We can all learn from each other, and that's a great part of being in a forum like this one - I've learned a ton here myself. I apologize for throwing out the term without any explanation.

"Modes" just means that you can use where you start in any given key to get very different "feels" for a song. For example, if you sit at a keyboard and play the white keys from C to C, it's the classic "doh re mi fa so la ti do" major scale, which is called Ionian mode. However, if you play the white keys starting with D and ending at the D an octave higher, it's a very different "feel". You've just played all the same notes, but it's a different order called the Dorian mode, which gives a different feel. If you start at A and play the white keys to the next A, you've just played the minor, or Aolian mode (which also tells you why pieces in Am have a key signature of C.) You can do the same with E to E, F to F, etc. Using different modes is what can give a song it's "feel".

In looking at the music, this is a case where the key signature, based on the sharps in the song, could be either D or G (ie, two or just one sharp), because the C notes are sometimes sharp, sometimes natural. Looking at the bass line, the bass notes begin as D. This is often (but not necessarily always) a good indication of the key of the song. Also, because the Cs are sometimes sharp, sometimes natural, it's a sort of "switch hitter" for modes, as explained above. So the song as it is transposed now is actually in the key of D. I'm guessing that you transposed the song up a whole step from where it was initially?

I hope this is helpful http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

[hb]

I kinda understand what you're saying.
I can't remember where or how many times I transposed this song, so I can't answer your question. But let me give you a scenario of how some of this comes about. I look for an easier key, then down two half-steps, no..no good.........now up 5 half-steps.....oh that's good but way to high, so........let's drop in down a whole octave..down 12 steps........there, I have it........but it's got this funky look to it kinda like the music I posted here. Is this maybe why I getting music in a particular key but the music really isn't in that key? Also, are you saying that the music I posted could, in fact, be called a song in G and also a song in D ?
thanks again,
hb

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy HB,

The transposition steps wouldn't make any difference to how the key is understood. Composer is just trying to give you the "cleanest" key, given the actual notes in the song. In this case, because the song switches around the C/C#, it can be notated as either D or G, but given that the first melody note as well as the bass notes are both D, it's a pretty strong indicator that the song is actually in the key of D.

There are songs that switch between modes sometimes to give a different feeling to the different parts of a song. I just did "We Three Kings" this past week at church, and it's an excellent example of a song that is in minor mode for the verse (Em in my case), giving a bit of a dark somber feeling to the verse, and then switches to major mode (G major) for the chorus, to give a more upbeat feel to go along with the lyrics of the chorus.

ttfn,
Sherry

[hb]

Yes, I understand now. Thanks. While I've got your attention, I would like to ask you as to when one wants to insert the chord names on the music, is there particular staffs that you look for to eliminate, so that the chords that really shouldn't be don't show up? And visa-versa, staffs that you really rely on to build the correct chords? Right now, in my limited knowledge with it, I kinda rely on the right and left hand of the piano if it seems to be doing most of the work. Any thoughts?
thanks,
hb

[Sherry Crann (sherry)]

Howdy HB,

Determining which staves to include in the chord analysis takes a bit of practice, but it sounds like you're on to a good start http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif You can try out different ones for each song as well, and see which one suits you best. The Wizard makes it pretty easy to re-do the analysis if you don't like how it turns out the first time.

You can also select different styles of chords to display - did you know about that option? In Format/Transcribe chord names, you can select from various styles (eg. Jazz, Hymnal, etc.) which will show the chords in various flavors http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif You can even setup your own personal style.

Have fun with it http://www.notation.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif

ttfn,
Sherry

[hb]

Wow!, no, I didn't know that. I'll check it out now.
thanks,
hb